The Heart of Prophecy
Filed under Scripture on November 11th, 2008 by Andrew YeomanFirstly, I want to state that I am not a prophet, though I have prophesied by God’s grace. I come from a strong heritage of Welsh Apostolic / Pentecostal life, which had its roots in the Revival of 1904, and was the only movement to be directly born out of it. Because of God’s grace in saving me, I now speak on these issues, not as the final word, but as one who has been blessed and privileged to have witnessed some remarkable prophetic moments and vessels in my 31 years of life.
There is much debate about the role of prophets and prophecy in the Church today. Some argue that prophets & prophecy are confined to the time of the Old Testament and early church years; others say that whilst prophecy can continue, the role of the New Testament prophet does not. And to add to that, among those who believe in the present day prophet, there is debate as to what exactly he is and does.
Firstly, we need to clarify a number of key issues in this debate. Then God willing, next issue, we will look at some examples in history of prophets and prophecy that in my opinion touch something of the genuine manifestation of such gifts and graces.
There are two key areas for me that capture the heart of what we all need to consider:
1. The Role of the Prophet.
Ephesians 3: 5. This scripture contains Paul’s understanding of the role of the Apostle & Prophet. Paul states that the ‘mystery of Christ… has now been revealed by the Spirit…’ by these two ministries. To him, these ministries were to partner in a foundational role in New Testament ministry. He doesn’t say that the Old Testament prophets and the New Testament apostles were like a foundation to the Church, although of course there is truth to that. Rather, he is expressing the prophet’s present functioning in the New Testament Church, in which they were bringing a present ministry of the revelation of Jesus Christ that was unknown in previous generations! (The OT prophet could not do that!) The Apostle & Prophet were instruments now & together in NT revelation, during the early church years.
So New Testament prophets were and are vital to the ministry of revelation to the Church, of which the essence is Christ. For Paul and the early apostles, the written ministry they brought was eventually recognized to be of an infallible nature. Note however, that the NT prophets words are rarely recorded. We only have small glimpses in Acts, and in the prophecy spoken to the seven churches in Revelation. However, we do know one thing - the prophets in the NT played a foundational role, and worked in team ministry with the apostolic leader. This brought a powerful two-edged sword of ministry, both by revelatory preaching / teaching and through the revelation given in prophetic utterance.
Also, from this scripture, as well as Ephesians 2: 19 - 20, we can see something deeper regarding the prophets partnership with an apostle. It is not only foundational historically but functionally. We know from Acts that Paul (an apostle) & Silas (a prophet), as well as others, ministered on Paul’s Apostolic missionary team. This is vital today in an age where so called prophets are lone-rangers, spewing out words left, right and center, many of which are shallow, unjudged and dangerous, and a far-cry from a revelatory foundational-type ministry.
The concept of the Prophet as a foundational ministry was not new to the early Jewish Church. We read in Zechariah 4 of the prophetic word coming through Zechariah the prophet to Joshua the high priest & Zerubbabel. They were called to begin the building of the temple, to lay its foundations with shouts of ‘grace!’ We then turn to Ezra 5, where the historic account of this is given. There it mentions that Haggai & Zechariah, both prophets, were to accompany the builders of the House of God. In other words, both ministries were foundational in the rebuilding of the temple, one as wall-builders, the other as watchmen. Here we see the Old Testament type of what was to be in the New Testament, Apostle & Prophet working together in the building of the new people of God.
Then we go to the New Testament, in Matthew 21 - 24, Jesus comes to predict the rejection of Himself as the cornerstone, and yet promises the destruction of the physical - literal temple, and the construction of a more glorious spiritual temple. He is the chief apostle and prophet who laid a foundation for a new temple! Can you see what is taking place here? It is with this background in the OT & Gospels that Paul can speak of himself as a ‘wise master-builder’ in 1 Corinthians 3: 10 - 17, who lays a foundation of Jesus Christ, in the planting of new Churches. But what of the role of the watchman - the prophet? He too, with the Apostolic ministry can bring forth the mind of the Spirit in regard to this building ministry, as is so wonderfully demonstrated in Acts 16: 6 - 10, where the ‘Spirit of Jesus’ led them in Apostolic mission and building. Most commentators agree that the role of the prophet would have been key in this account.
Because of time, we cannot go into all of the issues involved in the present debates about the prophet, but I hope the above at least can get us started in beginning to see the issue with clarity. From this we can learn that a ‘go alone prophet’ is not good, nor biblical. Secondly, that whilst God primarily spoke through the Prophet in the OT, He now in the last days has spoken by His Son (Hebrews 1), who in turn has graced the Church not only with one ministry as the prophets of old, but the five-fold ministry (Ephesians 4: 11 & 1 Corinthians 12). They all in their own unique way manifest the revelation and ministry of Jesus Christ to and through His people.
Another thing to note is that OT Prophets prophesied predominantly to a physical nation/s - Israel and the Gentiles. In that mix were those obedient to God, and those rebellious. We have to believe that early church prophets were similar in many ways to the OT characters for them to have been recognized as such. They probably would have had a certain style of conveying the word. The tones of the word, and the substance of the heart of God being expressed would had been familiar to the Jewish disciples. They were men who forth-told, and foretold, and all utterance was born in the heart of God. However, it is evident Scripturally that the emphasis of ministry in the OT went from the lone prophet speaking to a king & nation, to a NT expression of a 5-fold ministry ministering in plurality to a redeemed/ fulfillment body of people. The body of Christ then in AD 60 & now in 2008 is a people of a promise fulfilled. Therefore, whilst God can and does still bring words of chastisement, correction and warning to His NT people at times (we need it!) - the nature of the word now carries the revelation of the mystery of Christ and His heart. Whereas in times before, the OT word pointed ahead in small ways, and came with condemnation at times, in the NT it was no longer primarily a prophetic word of judgment to an unbelieving nation but of revelation to a fulfillment people who related to their Head. In the OT the prophet spoke to kings both good & bad for warning of judgment, instruction and rebuke. Today, our King is Jesus. It is no longer a word to a king but from our King. So therefore whilst there are some characteristic traits which carry through from OT to NT, there are some significantly unique dynamics to the ministry & the revelation NOW revealed! In that word now, we can receive chastisement (See Revelation 3) or warning of God’s severe dealings at times, but as sons! As when the writers of the Epistles gleaned from OT scripture to bring instruction to the NT people, so too the prophets probably ministered through much of the terminology of the OT prophets. However, there was a new dynamic. The prophets now, were in and for the Body of Christ, with other ministries for the maturing of the saints for service, and to bring the body to the full stature of Christ. (Ephesians 4: 13 & 15) We must remember to keep this balance and tension in our thinking regarding prophecy.
2. The Essence & Nature of Prophecy.
For me there are two key verses that capture what prophecy in fact is, both in Biblical times, and today. Firstly, there is the verse in Revelation 19: 10, which states that, ‘the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.’ In other words, all the prophetic utterance found in the book of Revelation, which came through John to the Church is at the heart - Christocentric (Christ centered)! So then prophecy is not the idea of men; it is not speculative words of things to come (although prediction can come by the Spirit as with Agabus & the famine); it is not impersonal. Rather in its purest sense, it is the Word of the Lord - Himself, by the Spirit to the Church, and thus NT prophets, like the OT ones, would have conveyed it as such. However, today it is not infallible, nor can it be added to Scripture, rather it brings out the treasures of truth written within Scripture. Now remember that prophecy must be judged in the light of Scripture because it comes through imperfect channels, but in its purest essence before coming through the channel, it is out of the mouth of the Lord Jesus to His people. Therefore, we can know how to judge a word when it carries this undeniable mark - the mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ and all He has given us in Scripture. The prophetic channel, in keeping this plumb-line of ‘Christ testifying revelation’, can begin to mine the depths of prophecy and bring out treasures of the Kingdom through the prophetic word. They can be words that exhort, instruct, edify, and even through seasoned ministry - direct, so as long as they carry the undeniable mark of God’s character and truth, as revealed in His Son and in Scripture. Once delivered audibly, it then must be judged and agreed by those around that God has spoken. If it is judged to be so, we can act on it with faith!
Prophetic revelation then is a mine of precious stone, that can help the builders of God’s house in that foundational ministry, and in a more general way to encourage the people of God and lead them into greater things in the advancing of the Kingdom.
Secondly, the nature of prophecy is important. How do we know when we are to prophesy, how to prophesy and what to prophesy? Again, there is much to say, which I will say another time, but for me the key text is in 2 Peter 1: 21. Genuine prophecy never has and never should originate in the will of men. It is born of God, by the Holy Spirit in the deep places of a man. Peter says that prophets of God were men carried along by the Holy Spirit. I like the description of prophecy given by a powerful servant of God, D. P. Williams, who came out of the Welsh Revival in 1904 and was used in pioneering an Apostolic movement with powerful prophetic ministries in those he labored with. He says:
‘The prophetic word must be born in the bowels of Mercy, and the affections moved in the operation of the gift. This background of Divine character is most essential to the making of a channel, as there is possibility for the operation of the gift to be on the surface, and remain in shallow waters, or to keep the gift in a babyhood stage, without spiritual development.’
Some practical advice here. The first time I ever prophesied was when I was around 10 years old. I had seen powerful ministry of this kind from a babe, yet how did I know how to prophesy? I simply asked my mother, and she said these words, ‘just wait, be patient, you’ll know when you are to prophesy.’ So simple! And yet she had not tried to cajole me into something that might, or could be it. No! I was to wait for the genuine burning and bubbling of God from deep within! And that is my advice, which I believe to be rooted in the Word, and learnt from genuine experience of seeing powerful, deep and Christ revealing prophets and prophecy in my lifetime. Not to mention hearing of those who over the last 100 years in Wales have continued to bring that foundational ministry of the Prophet with the Apostle in Church planting and building. They too have led other members to be used in the gift of prophecy to the edifying of the Body for service.
Prophecy can come through many ways and means, however let the plumb-line of Peter’s words hold us on course for a genuine manifestation. It takes patience, waiting, depth of seeking, a pure heart and a genuine experience for the prophetic word to come forth. We can have prophetic preaching but also we should see as in both OT & NT prophets, that Spirit infused Word spoken to the people of God, direct from the moving of the Spirit deep within. This is why prophets prophesied in the first person, such was the immediacy of revelation and deep feeling of the Holy Spirit within. Peter says, they were ‘carried along…’ by the Holy Spirit. I am looking for such a manifestation today - genuine, untainted, powerful, and unmistakably God!
A final thought then on all the ‘prophetic talk’ today. For me the above principles are key to judging words, and knowing the authentic among our gatherings. (There is more to say, but time and space doesn’t permit.) But another thing worth considering is what brings about such mixed teaching / understanding about this ministry. One of my feelings is that it is only God Himself who can birth a genuine prophetic vessel, ‘as the Spirit wills,’ says Paul to Corinth. I have noted that the genuine prophetic ministries that I have heard of or witnessed in part, were all born in the fires of genuine revival! Could it be then, that many today are grasping after things or claiming things for themselves that have not been born in a supernatural move of God! I realize that God can and will raise up such vessels in His Church in all seasons, and yet it seems that the understanding of the depth of them is only realized by those come through fire, learn through fire, are hardened by fire and then bring a ministry of fire. They then pass on a baton of truth and understanding to their spiritual sons. The fire tests each man’s work, and purges the worthless! Next issue, I will be looking at these issues in the history of the Apostolic movement that was birthed in the Welsh Revival of 1904, and also the early years of the Latter Rain, which was indirectly influenced by the Welsh movement, but later became something uglier than it initially was.
May God cause this new generation to touch such things and not be satisfied with any less!
Tags: New Testament, new testament church, old testament prophets, prophecy, prophets, Scripture, the bible
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Good stuff Andrew… May Christ raise up for Himself in this hour such vessels for His own honour & glory!
A lot of this sounds good, but sadly is not scriptural.
For instance: “From this we can learn that a ‘go alone prophet’ is not good, nor biblical..”
Jesus was a ‘go alone prophet’; John the Baptist was a ‘go alone prophet’; and Elijah was a ‘go alone prophet’.
And what’s important about Elijah - a ‘go alone prophet’ - are the prophetic words spoken at the end of Malachi 4 and the prophetic words spoken by Jesus. Though john the Baptist was a type of Elijah, he did not fulfill all of the prophetic words of Elijah. Thus, we can expect to see more Elijah-types on the scene. Probably, as ‘go alone prophets’.
Larry,
Are you sure that the NT model allows for “go alone” prophets? I believe that is the one change from OT prophets to NT prophets: NT prophets are part of a team leadership structure and in accountable relationships, submitted to authority as well.
Can you show me a NT pattern for prophets that is different than this? Going against the grain is one thing; going it alone is another.
I want to second Dr. Brown’s comment.
As one of my father’s in the faith used to say, it’s life together with other believers (or other leaders on a ministry team) that “keeps true prophets from becoming false.”
Across the board, in Christian community, in team leadership, in family, the Lord is jealous to bring about the fullness of Christ and a powerful Gospel witness through a corporate Body. This is the glory of the New Covenant, that Jews and Gentiles, men and women, people from all nations and back grounds can be transformed and made one in Christ.
By the way, great article Andrew!
Dr. Brown,
Our number one example for a NT prophet is Jesus. In this particular exchange of ideas, He would be a ‘go alone prophet’, right?
This does not mean that I believe a whole bunch of “lone ranger prophets” should show up next Sunday at traditional churches and prophesy. To me, this would be rebellious. Why? Because most traditional churches have a set order with a person in charge. God is not the author of confusion.
But I don’t have a problem with an individual prophet walking into San Francisco (or any other city) and prophesying on street corners and wherever against the sins of that particular city. This may upset the religious establishment of that city, but the Lord doesn’t seem to mind that.
Okay, here’s a question for you: where in the NT does it state a concrete rule that a prophet has to always be with an apostle or under a hierarchy system with accountability dictates? Nowhere that I can find.
Just a couple more thoughts before I head off to work.
What about Philip in Acts 8:5? Would you consider him a ‘go alone evangelist’?
Or what about Barnabas? He was probably a prophet/teacher (Acts 13:1) and he went to Antioch by himself. So, was he a ‘go alone prophet’?
Larry,
The point is not one of whether or not a brother may minister from time to time by himself. Philip and Barnabas were both radically related to other saints, and I am certain that Dr. Brown was really addressing the phenomenon of so-called prophets, or other ministers who have a maverick spirit and are not willing to “be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.” (Eph. 5) There are many self-appointed souls with a superiority complex towards the Body who are not willing to walk in a submissive meekness. There is not a rigid model for leadership in the NT, but the most common picture we see is of servants with different functions working together as a team, and leading the Church towards the fullness of Christ. Men who are not willing to work as a team alongside other ministers are most likely ill-equipped to lead the saints in any way.
Philip and Barnabas were men of character, men of the Spirit, men of humility with clear callings from the Lord, and their ministries were commended by the saints in Jerusalem. In other words, while they may have ministered alone from time to time, they were still in union with the Lord and with other saints. This is absolutely crucial, both as a safeguard for us, and especially because the Lord desires to reveal Himself through a corporate entity; namely, the Church.
Jesus Himself displayed the most remarkable kind of humility, submission and meekness. (Phil. 2) The Infinite Son of God submitting for 30 years to earthly parents and leaders in Judea. That’s amazing to me, and this is one of the ways that He learned obedience.
Dr. Brown can correct me if I’m wrong here, but I believe you may have read into what he stated. In the NT Church there are no self-formed loners, or men who are going about as superior to and separate from other saints. That is primarily what he was addressing, I believe.
There is a Body which has been redeemed, with all of its quirks and rough edges, all of its gifts and servants, and the Spirit is at work to bring about the fullness of Christ through leaders who are eager to work together for the glory of God and the testimony of Jesus.
By the way, in case I wasn’t clear enough about this, I do believe that there is a leadership structure in the local church. There are pastors, elders, and servants who lead in other capacities to the glory of God.
Blessings,
Bryan
Bryan,
Yes, you accurately reprsented my thoughts, and Larry was reacting to something I never said or thought (which is understandable, given the nature of short, online communication).
Larry,
To use Jesus as our example and then say, “He did it alone and so can we,” is to misuse the nature of his example. (Jesus was also the Word made flesh, which makes quite a difference!) And doesn’t Paul lay out clearly in 1 Cor 12 and Rom 12 our need for one another in the Body?
Dr. Michael and Bryan,
Just a quick reminder: this is the statement in the article that I disagree with:
“From this we can learn that a ‘go alone prophet’ is not good, nor biblical.”
It’s not that I’m against team ministry nor am I against the prophet and apostle working together. This is scriptural. But I do not believe that you can deduce that a ‘go alone prophet’ (your words, not mine) is not scriptural.
If Jesus wants to send an individual prophet to a city to prophesy and proclaim truths for a day, a week, a month, a year, ten years or however long, that is up to the Lord. And I can find no scriptures saying He can’t do this. Or that He needs to send a ministry team along with the individual prophet.
Larry,
thanks for your comments. They thing for me is the distinction you are making about the Prophet. Because of so much obvious shallow and dangerous ‘prophetic ministries’ in the West today, I think there is a tendency for people to revert back to OT type figures - like Elijah or Jonah etc. However, as I state in the article, now the dynamic has signifantly changed in that Jesus (who embodies all the functions) has distributed His gifts to men (plural), and thus now the emphasis has gone from the a predominant singular ministry (dual if you want to include priest) to a five fold. Not only but Eph 4: 11 onward specifically spells out the role of the graces in maturing the saints, plural, to minister in such ways! God now uses a Body! The prophet of OT in prophetically preaching like Jonah, would often, though not exclusively be seen in Paul & Peter’s Apostolic preaching, Philip’s Evangelistic preaching, and the list could go on. In the OT the prophet was a ’sent one’ which in the NT is the distinction of the APostle. (This is the point of the NT, in the Lord widening the scope of ministry, to plurality.) One more thing: Barnabas went as a ’sent one’ from Jerusalem Church, he perceives God’s grace, and then looks for Saul / Paul to come and join him, Later in Acts 13, it’s evident that there is a team ministry in operation.
Bless you.
Sorry one more thing. For me, the key thing in in this debate is ‘what is prophecy?’ Essentially it is God speaking through a yielded servant out of revelation born by the Holy Spirit. Surely prophesying is a key hallmark of a prophet!
Secondly, we have to grasp the NT dynamic in terms of what context is the prophet now ministering. For me this is crucial! OT - to a a king, a nation and nations (including a faithful remnant.) to whom the the threat of judgment was to the disobedient, the promise of restoration to a covenant keeping people / NT to a redeemed people of promise fulfilled in Christ, who though can be warned and dealt with, are essentially in Christ!
Thanks for the enlightening discussion. May the Lord bless you.
Larry,
Thanks for the further clarification. Of course, God can send whoever He wants to send and use them however He pleases, but if there are others who are in right relationship with God in a region, the NT pattern is clearly related to a Body, out of which an individual, ministers rather than an individual who is totally unattached. Do you differ with that?
Dr. Michael Brown,
..”but if there are others who are in right relationship with God in a region, the NT pattern is clearly related to a Body, out of which an individual, ministers rather than an individual who is totally unattached…”
Maybe He will use a member in right relationship from the region; and maybe He won’t. The choice is up to God.
Larry,
I think there’s an important spiritual point you’re missing here in terms of what Andrew was trying to communicate. Perhaps you can step back and reflect on the principle? My point here is not that everything must comes of out the home base in a region, but that if God sends someone into a region where He already has His people laboring in right relationship with Him, then there is no reason for a “go alone prophet.” Otherwise, there is confusion, lack of mutual submission and accountability, among other things, and the Word is pretty clear about all this being important.
Let me give a hypothetical illustration:
Let’s say there is a city named Christian City. In Christian City there are fifty churches and each is in right relationship with the Lord and with the other churches. There are numerous quality apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, elders, and deacons in Christian City.
Now, two thousand miles away, a prophet lives in a hut. He thinks the Lord has directed him to go and speak in Christian City. He jumps on a jet, flies to Christian City, takes a taxi to the city square of Christian City, pays the driver, walks to the middle of the city square and begins to prophesy to the people and the government of Christian City. All of this is done without talking to another Christian (except his wife).
Now, are you saying that God would not do this? That He no longer sends a Jonah-type prophet to a city to speak His words?
This seems to be the crux of our disagreement.
Larry, I can’t speak for Dr Mike, but I can give you my opinion. I think there are number of Scriptural issues you are missing here in regard to the Prophet as the lone figure of the OT, vs the 5-fold of the NT.
Firstly, in the NT it seems that it is the Apostolic pioneer is the ’sent one’ of the NT, with a team, to bring God’s word to that region. Nowhere after John the Baptist is this done through a lone figure. The reason is Jesus in inaugurating a new eschatological people (in the gathering of the 12 etc) has now distributed his gifts amoung men (plural), and place them within the new body of people.
So therefore, the prophet of the NT comes from within the new people of God, and the things the OT prophet would have solely carried in himself, have now been distributed to a 5-fold expression - and to a wider body! We are the body of Christ, which is the ministry of Jesus in the earth today. Anything outside of that has to be questioned in light of NT Apostolic teaching.
Secondly, the NT local Church in any given region is the local expression of the above dynamic. Note, that all mentioned NT prophets came from, ministered to and within the body, whether Agabus, Judas or Silas.
Please also bare in mind another key Scripture from Paul in 1 Corinthians 14: 29 - 33 ‘… one prophesies… another judges…’
This is the Pauline paradigm for NT prophets, and any revelation that is spoken by or in the midst of the saints.
Simply put, it is not a question of what God CAN do (in terms of raising up a “lone prophet”), but a matter of what He has chosen and desired- namely, the raising up of prophetic servants who minister in union with a prophetic Church. He certainly could raise up a so-called “lone prophet”, but He has already expressed His desire to express the fullness of the Son through a Body. We have no reason to stray from praying for, laboring for, and anticipating His highest intentions.
My focus in this discussion has been narrow. In that, I have not wandered into the church environs, but have stayed outside its walls, in the public arena.
So, after reading everybody’s viewpoints, I would have to say that we disagree on this issue. For most, who may read what we have batted back and forth, our disagreement will seem minor. Yet, I feel that in the next few years, this minor point will erupt into a major one which will cause great disharmony in the body of Christ.
But even should this happen, there is grace enough for us all. God bless.
Larry and others,
Thanks for the helpful discussion! I think we’re both concerned about key issues, yours being not to stifle or restrict the voice of God, others being not to give place to the long-range spirit that can be so damaging. Hopefully, we all gained some insight from the interaction.
To one and all,
I thoroughly enjoyed this article, “the heart of prophecy.” And just like you Andrew I have a strong Welsh and Scottish background, as I originally come from Wales (Mum - Welsh + Dad - Scottish = me confused. Just kidding). In my younger days, I remember having talks with some of the older saints from the Apostolic movement in Wales and I remember them telling me that if anyone gave a false word they were kicked out of the church (this would happen if they were a repeat offender, not teachable and did not submit to the authority God had set in place). Sorry, to harsh they were asked to leave. But more than anything else I have enjoyed is the discussion that followed and so I thought to myself let’s have my two cents worth in this wonderful dialogue.
1. Prophets as far as I understand in the Old Testament were raised up by God to confront the wickedness in high places meaning to expose all the idolatrous practices, evil, falseness, murderous, adulterous behaviour that was seen from the leadership, the priests in the temple all the way down to the people. One of the most perfect examples of this in the Old Testament is Jeremiah. All that he did was out of loving obedience to God. Why? Because love is manifested in obedience as obedience is manifested in love. He didn’t exactly have the leadership to go to and say “can you test this word for me to see if it is of God?” No he didn’t in fact part of recognizing a prophet was to do with his message to see if it was from God. If it was from God it would come to pass and if not he was killed.
However, when we look at the times of Jeremiah, false prophets and false prophecies were flowing to and fro. Again this is because the people did not follow the mandate of God as prescribed in His word. Ok, let’s get back on track, Jeremiah’s message was totally counter culture and subversive. His message was not well received by the mass because of its stinging tones of rebuke, the brutal call of repentance and return to God, and the restoration of the people back into relationship with God.
2. The New Testament prophet and prophecy as I understand can be separate as well as one of the same. Consider the gift of prophecy in 1 Cor. 12:10 and Rom. 12:6 this is seen as an individual operation of the Spirit. So the one who gives a prophecy is not necessarily a prophet.
Nevertheless, when it comes to the Prophet in the New Testament, there should be no difference in the message from the O.T. when dealing with corruption, wickedness, idolatry and so on within the confined area or nation God has called them too. But the major difference between the O.T. and N.T. is this - Jesus Christ. The Kinsman Redeemer, The Saviour, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the Lamb of God and the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.
The other major difference from O.T. to N.T. is the changing of community that it is not held down by social, economic, or racial standings. For in Christ, we are one! When one reads Ephesians 4, the first thing one should notice, is what I believe is highly important, is unity! Unity is of the upmost importance in understand the ‘5 fold ministry’. Why? well, it is because unity with the ‘5 fold ministry’ structure that God has placed should reflect that there should be no conflict within this group.
For example, if the apostles teaching is in conflict with the prophets word and the evangelist preaches a name and claim it message, and the shepherd is not feeding the sheep and is to busy playing golf not looking for that lost sheep, whilst the teacher is teaching something that make you feel good and not be good; then there are problems a foot in the church. There is no unity in this! Therefore, everything that is said and done should be in line with Holy Scripture and the Holy Spirit. This would then bring about a common unity among the ‘5 fold ministry’ and fellow believers.
With all that said, there are problems within the church that need to be challenged and confronted, which I will bring to mention another time.
Again, I say thank you for a great article as I look forward to the next one. Keep up the God work as it is a good work.
Love and blessings,
Jonathan
Nov. 25, 2008
Dearest Mr. Yeoman, Dr. Brown, Bryan P. & Larry Who:
I just thank our dear Lord for the inspired guidance of His Holy Spirit (Ruach Ha Kodesh) in leading me, here, tonight to this timely and enlightening article; as well as the insighful dialogue!! It is truly food and refreshing and, yes, confirmation to the spirit of a Prophet-in-training (via Holy Spirit), who has been assigned, as an African American woman to a Messianic Jewish Rabbi somewhat willing, yet unclear, as to how to incorporate my prophetic gifting into the body of believers he’s been sent to build-up. And, I coming from an “extreme” prophetic church body — drawn by the Messianic music, and the love of God shed abroad in my heart for the small body of believers in this orthodox synagogue — was, also initially, unclear of my role. All I had, as a fledgling, rapidly-budding prophet, was a word from G-d telling me to “cross pollenate.” And six months later, a “falling upon my face” in intercessioal prayer, when I was shown the “old” (God was not pleased) Rabbi’s firing (I was unaware of the politics). Then, I found myself (2 months later) with a strong, specific prophetic Word of the L-rd for one of the “candidate Rabbis,” telling hime that he was, indeed, called to be the one to come to this group! Next, I flew to Wisconsin (from Nevada) to be with (and help nurse) my Dad upon his death bed. While I was gone (a month) the Rabbi accepted the position (he says based, largely, on the word I’d given as confirmation). He moved from California to Nevada, while I was still in Wisconsin. I flew back to Nevada after 4 months in Wisconsin. Two weeks later, my Mother was found dead in her bathroom!! (both died in 2004 — Aug. & Nov.) . . . sigh-h-h-h . . .
Since that time, the Lord told me to return to my “backside of the desert” experience in Nevada — not to stay on my family’s farmland; to sell it! Difficult emotionally. Since that time, I’d returned to the Messianic church once or twice. On one occasion, I’d prayerd for a group of people the new Rabbi had called together in front of synagoue . I was lead by Holy Spirit to do so — was use to flowing that way in church I was birthed out of. Rabbi was receptive . . . UNTIL BODIES BEGAN FALLING (flying) HARD TO THE GROUND, as I layed hands on them. I was as SURPRISED as the Rabbi!! He pulled me back! I layed my head of his shoulder (the power of Holy Spirit truly upon me!), while Rabbi whispered to me to “trust” him. I did. I finished ministering and “loving-on” several more people. However, when I finished, Rabbi, forcefully, told the body of believers: “WE”RE JEWS!!” — in other words, we don’t do that!! One elder told me to “get ahold of yourself (myself) young lady!” I was confused and publically humiliated!!
I went home and got on the floor at the Lord’s feet!! I WAS A BASKET CASE! I didn’t know what I’d done wrong!! I was quite upset! Soon after, I received a long, written Word of the Lord. Rabbi accepted it!! As did others in leadership. Rabbi called me to “see if I was angry.” To make a long story short. Since that time, I have been, not a “lone ranger,” but rather “called away” and trained exclusively by Holy Spirit. (NOTE: the pastor of my original church died month before my Dad. And the “parent church,” which “planted” us grew quickly-small (as Senior Pastor became fulltime Evangelist) and, now, just a hand full — lead my the radical, extreme prophet.
My Rabbi is still very conservative!!! It is still slow-going. I’ve developed an online relationship with the Rabbi. Very close since Jan., 2008. I, consistently, mail my tithes and send “words” and many, many prophetic “Songs of the Lord” to Rabbi — (nearly 70 songs in 6 months) . Very recently, learning to write, not only the lyrics, but the notes of the basic melody I “hear” in my mind.
However, I don’t know, still, HOW my gifting will fit into the rather traditilonally structured atmosphere there. Prophetic dancing (which I use to do) has been prayed for long before new Rabbi came, but only the traditional Jewish dancing has been allowed. I don’t try to force anything. All I know is, the Lord has NOT TOLD ME TO GO ANYWHERE ELSE! In fact, even though things seem “dead,” when I attend special events, I know Lord is working in the hearts, behind the scenes. I know that since January, the Lord has really, truly increased the LOVE in my heart for the people there (especially Rabbi), even thought I seldom attend (health challenges on the surface). And I, sometimes, have to resist my FLESH, when I, at times, wonders why I’m still in Nevada “wasting time;” since what Lord has equipped me for doesn’t seem to be happening. Family want me closer to them, but I ONLY DO WHAT THE LORD TELLS ME TO!! AND HE HAS NOT TOLD ME TO LEAVE!!
ON NOVEMBER 4, 2008, I RECEIVED a beautiful, rather long, PROPHETIC WORD OF THE LORD FOR THE RABBI. IT WAS THE REVELATORY WORD OF GOD’S HEART!! IT IS, BASICALLY, ENCOURAGING THE RABBI TO INCREASE HIS OWN INTIMATE WALK WITH THE LORD. I’ve sent him, similar, prayers and other “smaller” words, over the years and months, which he says he appreciates. Ar one time he wrote: “We miss you, and I can’t wait for you to return!” He doesn’t write so transparent anymore. And the Lord preparing him, step-by-step, for a deeper walk toward trusting Him in love for him to better PREPARE THE BRIDE. And to begin to step out, more, by building up the body by adding “WATER” to his foundational teachings!! And that the Lord will soon send him help.
Anyway, it’s been a training time for us both, alone, individually. But, I always “saw” us as a team — (once I understood and accepted my role). After all, he’s a Rabbi and “who am I?” I , now, know who I am in Christ! And Rabbi , now, knows (think he always did). But, has found out (in past 3 years), that he needs to team up with the flow of the NT prophetic purpose and manifestation, as well!! Otherwise, why did G-d send me???
My concern, recently, was: I “know” much of what you all have written about in — (discussed / debated) — the wonderful article by Mr. Yeoman. I also, truly enjoyed, Dr. Brown’s piece on the Prophet Jeremiah!!! I mean, I knew the essense of it — ( and have documented Prophetic Words expressiing the Spirit of God confirming much of the truth you all have written about here). My only source (except for a few books I’ve read earlier) ALLl come from consecrated prayers, submission and training (via Holy Spirit) at the Lord’s feet!! And learning to hear and obey His direction, because my heart is plugged into the Lord’s heart — (and I , of course, love Him!), so, hence, not too difficult to obey. I’ve experienced some of the excesses of “FREEDOM” in the Spirit — including “lone rangers,” and spiritual pride and jealousy!! It was hurtful, but I always took it to the feet of Yeshua!!!
Then, very quickly, I was sent to the Messianic movement, and had to learn about that, and how to operate there — so different from my EXTREME CHURCH “birthing!;” where I would “DO,” then “LEARN” what I did, later!
However, now that growth and acceptance has taken place — (at least the ground is almost prepared to receive the “seeds”) — I was wondering HOW would I, concretely, teach / preach what I’ve learned in the Spirit?? I’m sure Rabbi would give me platform, upon my return. And I’ve wondered, exactly, how to support and express what I’ve been taught via G-d’s Spirit. And how would I have, the necessary, scriptural substance to help Rabbi to trust this direction.
Well, all of my writing is to explain to you that, tonight, how our precious, all-knowing Lord has used Dr. Brown’s newsletter in my inbox, which led to this site and this discussion to, SO VERY GREATLY, ENCOURAGE MY HEART AND MY SPIRIT!!! And I’ve noted the cassette offerings of Dr. Brown’s work on the prophetic. Wonderful!! I will purchase!! All of this Spirit-direction tonight is, I want you to know, to help light a concrete foundation and a prophetic heart of the Lord saying: “YES, KAREN, YOU ARE ON TRACK!! YES, MY DAUGHTER, DON’T YOU KNOW BY NOW, THAT YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN THIS?!? NO, NOT EVEN IN YOUR ALONE TIME RIGHT NOW, I HAVE NOT BROUGHT YOU THIS FAR TO LEAVE YOU, LOVE!!”
I KNOW THAT I’M RAMBLING, A BIT!! AND I KNOW THAT MY WRITING, TONIGHT, IS NOT ON THE LEVEL OF DISCUSSION, WHICH YOU LEARNED MEN OF GOD HAVE BEEN EXPOUSING ON. HOWEVER, I LOVED IT ALL!! AND, SIMPLY, WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT IT IS ALL (EVEN THE DISAGREEMENTS) GOOD FODDER FOR THE CONTINUED — (AND OH SO, TIMELY) — UNFOLDING OF GOD’S WORK-IN-PROGRESS IN THE HEARTS AND MINDS AND SPIRITS OF A GROUP OF HIS PEOPLE (JEW AND GENTILE) ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE MOJAVE NEVADA DESERT!!
THANK YOU, SO MUCH, FOR YOUR SCHOLARSHIP AND STUDY AND DEDICATION AND FIRE!!!!! I CRAVE THAT!!! AND, SINCE I CAN’T “RUN AWAY” TO DR. BROWN’S FIRE SCHOOL OF MINISTRY, TO BE “IN MY ELEMENT,” SO TO SPEAK — (I have a brother in North Carolina, who’d love for me to leave the desert to be near him) — I KNOW, TONIGHT, FOR SURE, THAT THE LORD HAS BROUGHT ME JUST THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF “KINDLING” (VIA THIS ARTICLE & DISCUSSION) TO HELP IGNITE JUST THE CORRECT, OBEDIENT “FIRES” IN MY SPIRIT TO “MARRY” ME INTO THE BODY OF THIS 5-FOLD MINISTRY-TEAM-IN-THE-BIRTHING!! BARUCH HASHEM!! THANK YOU, AGAIN!!!!
G-D’S LOVE, GRACE AND PEACE TO YOU ALL,
Karen A. Surratt (Prayer Dancer)
Jonathan,
thanks for your kind comments. The follow-up to this article will appear in the issue due out in the next two weeks, as I was unable to submit one in the most recent issue, due to sickness.
Am interested as to if you know any of the names of the people your parents would be affiliated with in the Apostolic Church UK. I myself am not part of the UK version of the movement anymore (not since I was 3 - 4 years old) but certainly know many of the saints there. If you can find out, that would be great.
Thanks,
Andrew
Hey Andrew,
My parents are divorced and I am a Teen Challenge graduate from Wales, UK. Who is now pioneering the ministry of Teen Challenge in Korea. So your prayers from all the team is much appreciated at this time. Well one of my counsellors was a godly man by the name of Robert Hughes, who lives in Gorslas near Llanelli. He is the closest and most memorable contact I had with the apostolic church. Also, there was the Carr family, Malcolm and David Carr, they were memorable preachers. But the most memorable is Robert Hughes, a saintly man with a deep devotional life.
By the way, I read the article above and well…. OK! Anyway, my w-fe is calling me.
Look forward to hearing from you and your next article. Praying for your physically recovery.
Jonathan
Just a thought…
…Jesus didn’t even “go alone”. He got 12 guys around Him and had women traveling with Him to support His ministry. In fact, in His darkest hour He desperately wanted His three closest friends with Him so He wouldn’t have to “go alone”. You can practically hear His frustration and His fractured heart when He cries out, “couldn’t you pray with me for at least an hour?!”.
And Jonah wasn’t sent to a town with 50 churches and properly functioning prophets and apostles. He was sent to a nation who brutalized their prisoners of war, skinned people alive, ripped open preganant women and dashed the skulls of babies on stone walls. They worshiped demons by burning their children alive to devils. Nineveh had no prophets, churches, apostles or such. Jonah’s don’t get sent to places like that.
It seems that folks may object to these kinds of guidlines not out of fear of stifling the Spirit life of God, but because their self given license to loner-prophetism is perhaps being pulled on by the Lord.
Been there, done that, bought the shirt and sold it on Ebay. (Thanks Bryan, you played a huge role in my freedom from that).
Grace and peace,
mark jr.
Just to muddy the water:
Leonard Ravenhill in “the picture of the prophet.”
“The prophet in his day is fully accepted of God and totally rejected by men.”
“He lives in ’splendid isolation.’ ”
“He is friendless while living and famous when dead. ”
http://www.ravenhill.org/prophet.htm
Bill,
I take Ravenhill’s words to be a statement of what in fact happens, rather than the ideal that we should aspire to. And with that, I think he was probably speaking in hyperbole, rather than literal absolutes, in order to get his point across. Though I’m not very well versed in Ravenhill’s writings, so I could be wrong…
Bill,
I have read most L Ravenhill books, and in fact read that particular segment you quoted. It seems that L.R is giving a portrait of a ‘man of God’ rather than a particular ministry gift vs another. Often many of the saintly men like Tozer, LR, Arthur Wallis and Duncan Campbell etc would use the term ‘prophet’ as a descriptive word for the messenger of God in a general sense. (I think if Paul, Peter or Philip were around today, they would have been seen as spokesmen for God, despite their varied functions) Like the article states. the singular prophet of the OT embodies most of the functions of the fivefold in the NT. So for me in one sense, yes it is a lonely walk for God’s spokesman, even for the NT prophet, however, those of genuine spirituality must respect his role within the NT context and bring loving encouragement and help within the team context. You will often find it is those ‘despisers of prophecy’ (1 Thess 5) that will make it a tough task. If the prophet is in good relationship with the team, then he is open to his unique ministry being judged and encouraged by the brethren. All prophecy must be judged, but in a right relationship and context of team -ministry. So all spokesmen of God - Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher, will have to in some degree walk a lonely path against the world, and even carnal Christians. But the prophet will feel extra sensitivity to this due to the unique nature of his ministry and character. the prophet has a sensitive heart, that is moved by the Spirit and ‘carried along’. That in turn will bring attack from satan and people. The team’s role is to cover that and protect him, but more importantly the team compliments one another’s ministry in revealing the whole counsel of God and the mind of Christ. So in that sense, all are ‘prophets’ in a general sense, but remembering that the NT recognizes the specific prophetic function of the man as the gift.
Dear Andrew Yeoman:
I do not think we have met, but let me applaude you on your excellent Article concerning the role of the New Testament Prophets. My life is consumed in this ministry full time, and I can tell you from the “trials of the trails” that you are on target! About teamwork, let me double underscore that. The single most error of most New Testament prophetic ministries is and always has been “Independence” and that stems from the root of the Number 1 cause of failure in prophetic ministry-Pride. This is not to say “NT Prophetts” are to golf or have coffee daily with Apostles or coverings, but we must get connected at the proper source. I value those words and thank you for taking the time and effort to teach us soundly from God’s Word and your vast experience of the ministry journey. Blessings to you as you continue sharing God’s heart to ours.
Your friend in the Harvest,
John Mark Pool, author and co-founder
Word to the World Ministries
P. O. Box 879
Baker, LA 70704
225-771-1774
I second Marcus and Andrew’s comments on Ravenhill. Also, here is a segment on the issue of the prophet’s need for relationship from Art Katz’s forthcoming book THE PROPHETIC CALL. Even if that relationship takes place in a setting that’s a bit different than Art would’ve expected for ‘community’, the relationship is the key point here. It’s well worth considering:
I would unequivocally say that all prophets need to live in an intensity of fellowship or a community of believers. Prophets need to be brothers amongst the brethren, and subject to the same sanctifying work that affects character as any other in the fellowship. Prophets need this more than any other office. They are intuitive men, and can therefore be moved by vagaries or impressions that emanate out their own hearts, and which would move them into error. For a prophet, this is his wilderness situation, which has a wonderful, redemptive quality to keep men honest and real. And if the prophet is not real, what could be hoped for in the Church? And if the Church is false, what is its witness to the world? Therefore, the prophet needs to be organically joined to an expression of the Body of Christ. If he is some kind of floating phenomenon, a phantasm, who does his own thing independent of the Body, and flits off to the next meeting, or if he has no organic roots with the people of God, or if he likes isolation and to be by himself, then he puts himself in jeopardy. The prophet needs daily surveillance because there is no one more subject to error, and warp, and becoming false than a prophet. A teacher is not in such a place of jeopardy because he typically has a more balanced personality.