The Hollow Sound of Anti-Israel Protests
Filed under Israel & The Jewish People, News on January 7th, 2009 by Michael L. BrownTHE HOLLOW SOUND OF ANTI-ISRAEL PROTESTS
By Michael L. Brown, Ph.D.
Director, The Coalition of Conscience
On Saturday, January 3, a Muslim-led rally for peace in Gaza was held in Charlotte’s Marshall Park. Similar rallies have taken place in recent days in cities across America and around the world with a clear and consistent theme: Stop the massacre of the Palestinians!
To be sure, even Israel’s staunchest allies and friends rue the loss of Arab lives — especially the lives of innocent civilians — and one would be hard-pressed to find Israelis celebrating the deaths of defenseless women and children. No caring person - regardless of their religious beliefs or ideology - can remain unmoved by the suffering of so many people, which is why Israel does its level best to avoid civilian casualties.
Even the media has reported that the Israeli army has sent out hundreds of thousands of text messages, placed specific phone calls, and dropped countless pamphlets, urging civilians to flee from targeted sites — sites which Hamas intentionally placed in populated neighborhoods so as to maximize potential civilian casualties. The dictum still holds true that the Israelis consider it a tragedy when Arab children are killed by their troops, while Muslim extremists consider the killing of Israeli children by terrorists a cause for celebration.
But there is something terribly hypocritical about these anti-Israel protests, and it is fair to ask why these same protesting voices have been so deafeningly silent while hundreds of defenseless Israelis have been intentionally killed or maimed or orphaned by the very terrorists whom Israel is presently targeting. Which act is more deserving of protest, the unintentional (and much regretted) killing of civilians during an attempt to stop the murderous attacks of terrorists over a period of weeks, or the intentional killing of civilians over a period of years?
If Mexico was raining down missiles and rockets on cities in Texas — targeting schools and shopping malls and neighborhoods — also sending in suicide bombers whenever possible, how long would America wait to respond? And what if the government of Mexico had vowed to wipe Texas off the map? America’s response would be swift and devastating. Yet Israel has endured 10,000 rocket and missile attacks over the last eight years, along with devastating suicide bombings, resulting in more than 1,200 deaths and 7,000 injuries (from all terrorist attacks).
And how did Israel respond to this bombardment? The Israeli government, under Ariel Sharon, chose to forcibly evict its citizens from Gaza in 2005, pulling out all its troops as well, in an attempt to promote peace. (This was a terribly costly endeavor for Israel, in terms of both financial expense and emotional trauma.) Hamas responded with increased attacks against the Israeli people, causing daily terror and shock in these communities, not to mention the terrible loss of life.
Where were the Arab and Muslim voices saying, “Stop the massacre of the Jews”? Why the outcry over the loss of Arab life today but no outcry over the loss of Jewish life over the past decade? Is Jewish blood somehow less precious than Arab blood? Or do the Arabs have some kind of “right” to kill the evil, occupying Israelis?
Let’s remember that Hamas is recognized as a terrorist organization by the United States — think of Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaida as a point of comparison — and the Hamas charter states, “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” And, “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.” The Hamas charter also endorses the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the notorious, anti-Semitic forgery that claims Jewish leaders are secretly plotting to take over the world, a document exploited by the Nazis as well.
But this is not all. The Jerusalem Post reported on January 7 that Hamas was imprisoning and crippling fellow Palestinians: “The Hamas government has placed dozens of Fatah members under house arrest out of fear that they might exploit the current IDF operation to regain control of the Gaza Strip [Fatah was ousted by leadership in Gaza by Haams]. Fatah officials in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post that Hamas militiamen had been assaulting many Fatah activists since the beginning of the operation last Saturday. They said at least 75 activists were shot in the legs while others had their hands broken. Wisam Abu Jalhoum, a Fatah activist from the Jabalya refugee camp, was shot in the legs by Hamas militiamen for allegedly expressing joy over the IDF air strikes on Hamas targets.”
So, Hamas activists are brutalizing fellow Muslim Arabs, and yet Muslim protesters in Marshall Park held up signs directed at Israel saying, “Stop the hate” and “End racism,” the latter slogan being connected to the particularly ugly charge that “Zionism is racism.” How can these demonstrators make Israel out to be the guilty party? It is common knowledge that Palestinian children are taught to hate the Jews from their earliest days, with one famous textbook even stating, “There is no alternative to destroying Israel,” yet is Israel which must “stop the hate.”
Middle East expert Daniel Pipes noted in 2005 that out of Jews worldwide, “Israel faces the most extreme danger, surrounded as it is by enemies who in the past generation have dehumanized Jews in ways reminiscent of Nazi Germany in the 1930s. In both cases, governments have engaged in a systematic campaign to transform the Jewish next-door neighbor into a beast-like threat that can only be controlled through his destruction.” Not surprisingly, one pro-Hamas demonstrator at a rally in Fort Lauderdale, FL on December 30 shouted to Israeli supporters, “go back to the oven” and “you need a big oven, that’s what you need.”
This is the reality that surrounds the people of Israel every day — from Hezbollah in Lebanon, from Hamas in Gaza, from Syria, from Iran (just to name a few) - and at this point, at least 500,000 Israelis are within range of Hamas rockets. Yet when Israel finally said, “Enough is enough,” taking the necessary action to stop terrorists from trying to kill its people, there is an uproar of protest. The moral outrage of these protesters rings hollow, to say the least.
If Hamas would put down its weapons for good, there would be peace, along with the massive improvement of the quality of life for the population of Gaza. Until then, Israel can be expected to do what is necessary to stop the murder of its citizens, and those calling for peace should focus their attention on putting an end to extremist Muslim terrorism rather than protesting Israel’s self-defense.
Dr. Michael L. Brown is the President of FIRE School of Ministry in Concord, North Carolina and the Director of the Coalition of Conscience. His most recent book is, What Do Jewish People Think about Jesus? And Other Questions Christians Ask about Jewish Beliefs, Practices, and History
Tags: Gaza, hamas, Israel protests, peace rally, terrorism
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Hello Dr Mike,
hope you are well! Thanks for the informative article. I just wondered what you opinion was on how the Church should respond to this. Obviously we are to pray for an end to this and for revival in Israel, and revival among the muslims. But in regard to the land issue - It seems such an issue of controversy, even among believers who pray for and support the Jewish people. Some are taking a militant stance and believe we should pray aggressively about this land issue, while other supporters of the Jews believe the land is an issue that will only be resolved when Jesus returns and what will be, will be until then.
Obviously, the early disciples of the NT are very concerned for the nation & nations to receive Jesus as Messiah, but in their mission they don’t seem to get caught up in the battle for the land issue in their preaching or teaching. Indeed for Paul the issue is an end time move of grace upon the nation as a whole in Romans 9,10, 11. Are the early disciples leaving it in God’s hands and getting on with Kingdom mission or would they have made it an issue like many today? As it never seems to be mentioned.
And also, what I am asking is, what do you believe we should do about the land issue for this moment in time, prior to the return of Jesus? Do we watch and wait for the ‘Return’ on that issue? And while that happens pray for national revival in Israel and for the Kingdom Now to continue to expand? Or is it for us to take a definite stand now for the land?
I am v. interested to hear what you think?
andrew great question you asked for i am curious my self. but i believe that we should be heard in this issue, we should stand with israel in this time of conflict. i know what you mean about getting caught up in the land issue, but remember they need to know that there are voices out there that support them. please dont get me wrong, in war innocents end up suffering and getting killed on both sides, but this wouldve not happened if hamas wouldve abide by the cease fire. personally i believe there will never be lasting peace in the region, becuase hamas goal is for the destruction of the jewish state. i know the palestinians are suffering, they were suffering way before the israelis went into gaza, what they have is a govt. that only thinks of themselves. they call for israel destruction and send suicide bombers into jewish neighborhoods. i cant remember anyone from the hamas, islamic jihad,al-qada and any other muslim fundemantalist group leader going in on their own and strapping a bomb to themselves to make a point, they always recruit young poor palestinians, to do this all in the name of allah. and from what ive been reading these are the same groups that are well funded, for every shahid(martyr) the family gets money to help them for years to come. yes we should pray more than ever that GOD will open the eyes of these people, we should pray for the arab believers in the land that are being persecuted for their faith. tho they are the majority, yet they are the minority in that sense. (arab christian bookstore owner is killed) this was an article that i read a long time ago, of a believer that ran a christian bookstore, and his store was firebombed and he was kidnapped then killed. it does saddens me when innocents are trapped in themiddle. i usually tell my critics “how do you feel if you had children sleeping in the room next door, and the people across the neighborhood are throwing rocks, objects, at the rooms while the children are sleeping, i know i would get mad, so imagine rockets! do i believe israel has a right to defend herself, i say YES!
GOD Bless you Dr. Brown and I agree with you whole-heartedly and stand with you on this! We believers know this is not a war of flesh and blood, but of the world’s principles and their beliefs. Contrary to some belief, GOD has not abandoned Israel and He promised to bless those who bless her, and curse those who curse her or try to bring harm to her. When this world is against GOD’S chosen nation, it is ultimately against HIM! Soon and very soon, The LORD will say ENOUGH!!
Our house will continue to pray for the peace of Israel. Keep up the good fight Dr. Brown, your labor is certainly not in vain.
Dr. Brown,
AMEN!! We are so hypocritical in America. We have one act of terrorism against us (9-11) and we go to war almost immediately and have been at war since.
How long has Israel endured rocket attacks? How many of her people have been slain and crippled?
And yet the media has remained completely silent. A few months back I heard a story of a young Israeli boy who received an anonymous gift on a particular Jewish holiday, only to find out that it was a bomb which blew up in his face. Why aren’t those things printed?
The media is so beyond lop-sided in its reporting of the tradgedies concerning Gaza.
Thank you for using your voice to let the people know the truth!
By the very terrorists these attacks have targeted ?
you’re joking. Among the 600+ Palestinians killed in Gaza since the Israeli attack, more than 250 are children, as many are women. How many of the remaining men are hamas ? Oh but it’s ok because the qasam rockets killed 6 Israelis, and Israel has a right to defend itself by killing 100 Palestinians for each Israeli. Any Palestinian would do. right ?
Nowhere in your article does it mention that Israel had Gaza under siege long before the ceasfire was called off. Effectively starving millions of people to death is an act of war, and is in fact the real reason the ceasefire ended.
Hani,
Are you open to discuss these questions? I’m happy to dialogue with you about this and discuss the facts, as clearly as we can. And may I also ask you if you subscribe to a particular religious belief (Muslim, Christian, etc.)?
The full story is quite other than what you have stated, but I’m more than willing to discuss facts alone.
Thanks!
Hani, your accusation against Israel starving millions of people to death is inflammatory and ill-informed.
Gaza has long been under siege because Hamas is a terrorist organization of warmongering thugs and cowards, who possess no desire for peace or respect for life. They hide behind women and children, railroad aid for armament, and have ceaselessly lobbed missiles into residential zones in Israel, without provocation.
Israel has the right to defend herself and her citizens, and has acted in absolute accordance with International Law in doing so. Perhaps Hamas should have considered who they were up against, but that would have required thought. Hatred clouds reason.
While I don’t think that is very relevant to this discussion. I’m an atheist born to Muslim parents.
and if your facts are meant to tell me that Hamas aren’t saints. I’m very well aware of it , and also that Israel isn’t either. I lived there 16 years, and know full well how much each of those entities have enjoyed spilling each other’s blood.
The fact remains both Hamas and the current Israeli regimes were elected by their people, and choosing to negotiate with someone else reminds me of the proverbial man who lost his keys in a dark alley and went to look for them in the well lit street next door.
Bombing Hama’s HQ, missile launchers etc.. would have been Israel defending itself. Bombing UNRWA schools sheltering refugees (men, women and children) whose homes were demolished by the IAF isn’t self-defense. It isn’t even a proportional offense.
If the point is to make the Gazans so scared of doing this that they’ll never do it again. This is clearly not the way. I’ve seen the eyes of the children in the hospitals. Looking at their family with amputated arms and legs. It is not fear this is teaching them, but only cold blooded vengeance.
Chaya if your definition of terrorist organization is one who murders civilians to accomplish its political aims, then the IDF clearly also fits that definition. Thank you very much.
Dr. Mike,
I am with you 100% on this matter. We must support Israel with our prayers and our voices. It does not honestly surprise me at the reaction of the general public, for we know who rules the media and the airwaves in this Nation. I have enjoyed your writings and insights on matters of Israel and the Jewish people. I saw you many times in Brownsville and you have more than proven yourself a worthy student of God’s word and a authoritative voice as to matters close to the Fathers heart.
One must hope an pray that God’s children will wake up in this Nation an realize much of our blessings as a Nation comes from our blessing Israel.
God bless you and God bless Israel
In the Masters service
In regards to recent statements about the unfortunate death toll of innocent children, women and men being killed in Gaza being caused by Israelis is questionable. As I like to find the facts, from all reliable sources, in order to present the necessary evidence. When it comes to the accusation of Israeli troops blowing up school killing all those people inside one has got to look at the history of terrorist practices.
1. They will always store weapons, bomb making equipment and ammunition is places where there is high risk population meaning innocent civilians.
2. They will attack from high risk population areas in order to show the ‘barbarous brutality’ the enemy has done to the innocent civilians.
These are just part of the common practice of terrorists in urban areas. How do I know this? I know this from people who were former muslim extremists who converted to Christianity. Plus, if one looks into and researches terrorist practices one will find what I am saying is true.
I do agree though that there are those who are caught in the cross fire and suffer unnecessarily. But no one can fully and squarely lay the blame on Israel’s shoulders for the acts of provocation they have endured for years. Sometimes enough is just enough! And this real life and real time scenario is the straw that broke the camels back.
I pray for both Jews and Palestinians during this time as both people groups need our prayers.
Hani,
Thanks for your responses. Let me respond to your points one at a time:
You wrote: “Among the 600+ Palestinians killed in Gaza since the Israeli attack, more than 250 are children, as many are women. How many of the remaining men are hamas ? Oh but it’s ok because the qasam rockets killed 6 Israelis, and Israel has a right to defend itself by killing 100 Palestinians for each Israeli. Any Palestinian would do. right ?”
Actually, there is no moral analogy in your comparison. First, Israel is doing its best to avoid civilian casualties and is displeased over one Arab civilian who dies. Hamas, on the other hand, would gladly wipe out every Jew in Israel if they could. Second, hundreds of Israelis have died in terrorist attacks in the last decade, many at the hands of Hamas. Do these lives not count? Third, during World War II, were Americans upset if we killed 100 Nazis but only lost 10 American lives? As others have pointed out, such a comparison is obscene when applied to Israel’s war with Hamas today, as if more Israelis need to die in order to balance out the death of Arabs who, unfortunately, have called on murderous terrorists to lead them.
You wrote: “Nowhere in your article does it mention that Israel had Gaza under siege long before the ceasfire was called off. Effectively starving millions of people to death is an act of war, and is in fact the real reason the ceasefire ended.” Chaya and others have accurately described the reality of the situation in Gaza, but I’ll add a few more words. Although Israelis had been living in Gaza for decades — with thriving farms and schools — in an effort to achieve peace, all Israelis were removed from Gaza by their own government, along with all troops, at massive cost to Israel. How did Hamas respond? By attacking the Israelis! The only reason for a blockade was to stop Hamas from smuggling in more weapons, and the suffering of the people lies squarely at the feet of Hamas, not Israel. As I stated at the end of the article, if Hamas laid down its weapons for good, the people of Gaza would have every opportunity to live in peace and to prosper.
You wrote: “and if your facts are meant to tell me that Hamas aren’t saints. I’m very well aware of it , and also that Israel isn’t either. I lived there 16 years, and know full well how much each of those entities have enjoyed spilling each other’s blood.”
Once again, your comparison is wrong, and I have scores of friends who live in Israel, among them Arab believers too. The people of Israel have no joy in seeing their sons and daughters go to war; they have no joy having a bomb shelter in every home; they long for peace and an end to the conflict. Hamas, on the other hand, wants to see Israel wiped out, and, as I stated in the article, terrorists rejoice and celebrate when one of their one dies in a suicide bombing mission. Please step back and realize that there is no comparison here. Israeli leaders and Israeli media is constantly raising issues about the deaths of Arab civilians, and no one was dancing in the streets of Israel when word came of children dying in Gaza. In contrast, there are celebrations on many streets in Gaza with news of Israeli children killed by a Muslim terrorist. These are facts, not opinions.
You wrote: “The fact remains both Hamas and the current Israeli regimes were elected by their people, and choosing to negotiate with someone else reminds me of the proverbial man who lost his keys in a dark alley and went to look for them in the well lit street next door.”
The German people elected Hitler, and then the world went to war against Hitler to stop him in his murderous ways. The people of Gaza made a terrible mistake by electing Hamas - and there was also much infighting between Fatah and Hamas, with brutality going both ways — and Israel is not dealing with a civilized government ready for genuine peace talks but with a terrorist organization. These are the sentiments of Hamas, and this is what Israel is dealing with: “”Blood must flow. There must be widows, there must be orphans. Hands and limbs must be cut and the limbs and blood must be spread everywhere in order that Allah’s religion stand on its feet.”
You wrote: “Bombing Hama’s HQ, missile launchers etc.. would have been Israel defending itself. Bombing UNRWA schools sheltering refugees (men, women and children) whose homes were demolished by the IAF isn’t self-defense. It isn’t even a proportional offense.”
Are you unaware of the facts surrounding the bombing of the UNRWA schools? These have been widely available but not widely reported. Here’s some of the relevant data:
· Hamas terrorists fired mortar bombs from the area of the school towards Israeli forces, who returned fire towards the source of the shooting. The Israeli return fire landed outside the school, yet a series of explosions followed, indicating the probable presence of munitions and explosives in the building. Intelligence indicates that among those killed were Immad Abu Iskar and Hassan Abu Iskar, two known Hamas mortar crewmen.
· While the investigation of the incident continues, one crucial detail is already apparent: this tragedy occurred because Hamas consistently uses its own population as human shields. While betting that Israel will hesitate to strike back at areas with civilians present, Hamas covers its bet with the knowledge that should civilians be harmed, Hamas still wins since Israel will be censured by the world’s media.
According to the Associated Press, two Palestinian residents said “they saw a small group of militants firing mortar rounds from a street near the school, where 350 people had gathered to get away from the shelling. They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal.”
Hani, Hamas is responsible for this terrible loss of life. Israel was responding to terrorist shelling and, in fact, the building blew up because of Hamas munitions stored there. Right now, Israel has opened the door for all kinds of humanitarian aid to flow into Gaza (how much of that aid has come from the Muslim world?); Israelis hospitals are treating children severely injured in the bombing; Israeli hospitals are even treating Hamas terrorists. The reverse scenario is utterly unthinkable.
You wrote: “If the point is to make the Gazans so scared of doing this that they’ll never do it again. This is clearly not the way. I’ve seen the eyes of the children in the hospitals. Looking at their family with amputated arms and legs. It is not fear this is teaching them, but only cold blooded vengeance.”
At last, we have a partial point of agreement. Ultimately, the cycle of violence will continue, and bloodshed will produce bloodshed — unless, of course, the Arabs living in Gaza recognized Israel’s right to exist and had a government that foreswore violence. At that point, they would realize that the same Israelis who turned Gaza over to them with no guarantee of peace really do want peace with their neighbors, and that non-violence on their end would produce non-violence on Israel’s end. Sadly, the reverse again is not true: Non-violence on Israel’s part is seen as weakness by the Arab world — in particular, in Gaza and the West Bank — and so, when Israel puts down its weapons, the attacks against it only intensify. That’s why I do not believe that lasting peace will come until both Jew and Arab turn to Yeshua, but until that time, Israel must protect its people from terrorists, and that will only happen when the terrorist’s power is sufficiently broken.
One last note: I am in many ways critical of the nation of Israel — my own people, and therefore ones whom I can speak to frankly — and have no starry-eyed illusions of how wonderful the Jews supposedly are. No, we Jews have as many problems as anyone else. That being said, because I have so many friends with family members in the Israeli army, I constantly hear from them how their sons or brothers or sisters were almost killed in battle because of the extreme care takien by the government to avoid civilian casualties, and that is where the difference lies. I do hope that you can see this, and again, I regret deeply the loss of Arab life right now, along with any loss of Israeli life.
Way to go Michael ! You responded well. You stated ” That’s why I do not believe that lasting peace will come until both Jew and Arab turn to Yeshua. ” Beautifully said. My heart goes out to all Jewish people every where in the word not just Israel due to the fact the persecution against the Jewish people are every where. Here in Fort Lauderdale in Israel, France it does not matter where in the world you go it seems that there is a hatred of the Jewish people. Michael, I love you, keep up the good work. I pray that Yeshua will not tarry to much longer and he will return to reign forever! May the veil be lifted from the eyes of the people. In Messiah my Living Lord & King ! ~ Shirley
Israel must defend their citizens not only now but always. Government has the obligation to protect their people from all and any attacks. I hope Israel finishes the job it began. My prayers are with the IDF, the Israeli government and of course the innocent population of Isarel that has to live under such conditions of continuos attacks from the surrounding enemies year in and out. I regret Israel has so many times fallen into the trap of concessions to enemies that only use those “deals” to buy time while preparing for the next attack. Sonia
It always blesses and encourages me to see how strongly the born-again Christian community feels burdened to stand with Israel, and it is really the polar opposite of the anti-Semitism that plagued the professing Church in past centuries. To me, it’s a sure sign that those who take the whole Bible seriously will come out with a love for the people of Israel.
It’s also important that we cultivate a love for the Arab nations — Israel’s blood brothers! — and for all Muslims, knowing God’s heart for them as well, and knowing that Yeshua shed His blood for Jew and Arab alike.
Let us continue to go before God’s throne of grace!
Dr. Brown,
Your article seems to be taking many scenarios out of context. I think you need to be further educated on the history of the struggle between the PALESTINIAN people and Israel. You must know that close to 25% of the Palestinian people are of the Christian faith. Yet, they suffered the consequences of losing their land, homes and churches to the state of Israel. You seem to have a pre-conceived notions about what is an Arab. For your information, Arabs are not bound by race. Rather by the language of Arabic. Arabs could be Muslims, Christians and Jews. 45 % of the Jews in Israel are of Arab decent. I know that most of them gave in to the European colonial narrative of viewing Arabs as inferior races that therefore have chosen to refer to themselves as Jews only. Yet, there are many courageous Jews of Arab decent who are now going back to their Arab heritage and who would be disappointed at your bigoted outlook at the Arabs.
Gaza for you information can not be compared to Mexico. Only a person with no education of the historical context would make this comparison. First of all, Gaza is not a state. According to international law, an area that is controlled by Sea, land and air is an occupied territory. Therefore, Gaza is an occupied territory. Also, Hamas has been around for only 20 years. Israel, in the late eighties tolerated the establishment of Hamas in order to weaken the Fatah party. These as you should know are tactics of the colonialist, “divide and conquer”. Also, you must know that the majority of the Palestinians in Gaza are refugees. There original homes, mosques, churches were in what is called now Israel. They were kicked out and sequestered in a tiny barren strip of land to make room for the new white European colonialists. Like the native Indians who used to live in Concord and Charlotte had to leave their land on a “trail of tears” to the reservation camps.
The Gaza Strip, an illegally occupied territory has been placed under complete blockade by Israel for the past 2 years. This as you should know is called collective punishment and is a flagrant violation to the fourth Geneva conventions. As a result of this inhumane blockade, hundred of innocent Palestinians have died from lack of food, medicine and water. I baffled at your messages here. Here you are in the land of freedom and yet you support a state that support discrimination and apartheid.
On last thing, ideologies of anti-Semitism were not manufactured in the Arab and muslim world. They originated from the Christian world. You know, Charles Dickens and Shakespeare, to name a few are not Arabs, yet they espoused anti-Semitism.
Thank you Dr. Brown and may your God open your heart to the truth.
Sumood,
Thanks for posting here, but I’m actually quite conversant with the history to which you refer, and I can honestly say that the facts are against your, not for your position. You have bought into a revisionist history that bears little resemblance to what actually happened. (Please forgive me for being so blunt, but it is sadly true.)
So, I ask you: Are you really interested in the facts? Do you really want to defend Hamas and the consequences of its policies? Would you like to discuss what Hamas would do to any Muslim who became a Christian? Would you like to talk about when the hostilities began in “Palestine” before 1948? Would you like to look at the connection between the man known as Hitler’s Mufti, who worked for the extermination of the Jews, was the Muslim leader of Palestine, and mentored Arafat, and current Islamic extremism? (BTW, the reason I refer to the Arabs living in Gaza is to refute the myth of a historic Palestinian people. Calling them Palestinians can be misleading.)
As to the history of anti-Semitism, I’ve written and lectured on it extensively, and it predates Christianity and Islam. The question is: What is the cause of it? Are you claiming that anti-Semitism is justified?
Please answer my last question when you have time regarding anti-Semitism, and then, if you want to interact with facts — vs. my opinion or your opinion — then let us continue this dialogue here. If you have a moment, I’d also like to know your view of the Holocaust. Did it really happen? Was it justified?
For everyone interested in an excellent resource that I frequently recommend, go to: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html It will set the record straight on many important details.
Sumood,
The TRUTH Sumood is JESUS THE CHRIST this is truth wheather you choose to believe it or not. Our eyes are wide open we can see clearly the hate that comes from so many.
Let me ask you this question does the Palestinians have their own currency ? Why do you think Jewish people gave up all they had to move out of Gaza ? Did they not do it for Peace ? Furthermore please pick up a copy of the HOLY BIBLE or the Torah and tell me then, tell me who does Israel belong to. You see Sumood our God is the true and living God the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob and our hearts are very open to the truth for it is Him who opened it. It is my prayer that God will tender your heart and lead you also to the truth the truth that will set you free.
You are right summod anti- Semitism was not manufactured in the Arab world it was manufactured in satan’s world the Arabs just latched on to it as part of hate against the Jewish people. You are right again sumood Gaza is an illegally occupied territory so the current people should then get out they are there illegally.
I will pray for you sumood I will really pray for you that you will come to know the truth and the truth will set you free I am going to pray that you come to know the Lord Jesus The Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and I hope you will come back here and tell us all about your salvation experience. Jesus loves you sumood and so do we.
Please go to watch this video which took place here where I live Fort Lauderdale and tell me if these people sound loving to you by the way they represent islam they are in fact muslims. Fort Lauderdale, FL http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Xl68kP4wo
In Messiah Yeshua { Jesus The Christ }
Shirley
Mr. Brown,
I am surprised somebody with claims to a Christian spirit residing in you would be able to accept the casual dismissal of the lives of millions of people. ANYONE who fires a missile into a civilian area is responsible for murder–I don’t care what their faith or nationality is. Blaming the neighbor (no matter what they did) of a victim for your firing a weapon at that victim is irresponsible, and in no way lessens your culpability for firing that weapon.
It is difficult to take any of your other arguments seriously since you consistently neglect to acknowledge crucial social and political histories, including those issues explicitly pointed out to you by other writers (e.g., mass expulsions of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their own lands in the name of Israel (this is well-documented–you might try reading the work of Israeli historian Benny Morris rather than that specious ideologue Pipes, who has been publicly caught out in lies on numerous occasions), the forcible lockdown into a concentration-camp (it’s known as Gaza, and has the densest concentration of humanity on the planet now) and deprived of basic necessities for survival: i.e. food, water and medical care). The hostilities preceding the current conflict do in fact go back much further than 1948 (which you seem unaware of), dating to the appropriation of land in Palestine by the British Mandate following the Ottoman’s control of the region, and the prior and continuing massive immigration of Europeans there (I’m not sure why you put Palestine in quotation marks, since it has been clearly marked on official, internationally accepted maps since long before the violence perpertrated in the name of the Jewish State).
But rather than respond those larger issues and matters apparently beneath your notice like violations of human rights and Geneva conventions by the Israeli military and government, you query if those who point these facts to you want to know other “facts,” as if the existence of “Hitler’s Mufti” or any other singular individual somehow justifies the wanton killing and displacement of millions of others living near but having nothing to do with such a person. By your logic, the Israeli cabinet’s decision to slaughter civilians fully justifies further indiscriminate killing of Israeli citizens (who interestingly enough are ALL soldiers during their lives, having to serve in the military, unlike those Palestinian women, children and non-Hamas you are so easy about killing).
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The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. (Exodus 15:3)
I figure I would put the verse in everyone language here.
It will never stop amazing me the amount of people, who come under the Name of Jesus Christ, or call themselves Christians that can outwardly hold hostilities towards God people or the Nation of Israel for that matter.
I wonder if they feel the Old Testamnet is just not important to read & Study anymore?
Verses like Deut 20:17
I also wonder at times what the faces of all those who are so critical and ful of Israel as well as those who stand behind them according to a Biblical promise and mandate(”And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee.”) will look like. Will their faces turn pale when the King of kings returns? When the skies open up and upon His White Stallion, Jesus rides forth, Fire in His eyes, the Sword of truth & Righteousness coming out of His mouth, along with Him comes forth a host of Heavenly warriors, bringing judgment, destruction and the ultimate termination of those who are not part of His family from all the lands of earth. I guess from their view point at that time, upon their knee’s bowing before the King of the Jews and King of all other tribes, just maybe then they will realize they should have Blessed Israel instead of taking the side of the world with its anti-Semitic humanistic viewpoint.
Keep up the good work Dr. Brown
I am praying not only for the Children of Israel for salvation, I am praying for Salvation for all Nations tribes an tongues.
God Bless you, your family & Ministry
God Bless & save Israel
“Jesus,”
Thanks for writing. Let me respond to your points.
You wrote: “I am surprised somebody with claims to a Christian spirit residing in you would be able to accept the casual dismissal of the lives of millions of people. ANYONE who fires a missile into a civilian area is responsible for murder–I don’t care what their faith or nationality is. Blaming the neighbor (no matter what they did) of a victim for your firing a weapon at that victim is irresponsible, and in no way lessens your culpability for firing that weapon.”
First, I do not casually dismiss the loss of any life – even the life of a terrorist. I make that clear in my article, on this thread here, and nightly on my radio show. My point was the hypocrisy of the anti-Israel protests, since the people protesting the loss of Arab lives never protested the loss of Israeli lives. May I ask you, then, how often you raised your voice when Hamas took Israeli lives? Second, Hamas remains responsible for the loss of lives of their own people. If someone was killing innocent people – say, shooting at neighborhood kids on your block, slaughtering dozens of them, but you chose not to fire back at them because they were in a neighborhood of other terrorists and other civilians who supported them, then you would be responsible for the killing of children in your neighborhood. If you shot at them and tried to avoid killing human shields they were using – and who voted them into power, in this case – were killed, you would be responsible for a defensive act that might have had unintended consequences. I personally grieve over any loss of life, but there is simply no comparison that can be made between the actions of Hamas and the actions of the IDF. Just look at the Hamas charter! Listen to the firsthand stories of former terrorists like Walid Shoebat. And remember: Israel surrendered Gaza to the Palestinians so both sides could live in peace and Hamas instead tried to murder Israeli families every day. Again, I ask: Could you show me your condemnations of Hamas over these years?
You wrote: “It is difficult to take any of your other arguments seriously since you consistently neglect to acknowledge crucial social and political histories, including those issues explicitly pointed out to you by other writers (e.g., mass expulsions of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their own lands in the name of Israel (this is well-documented–you might try reading the work of Israeli historian Benny Morris rather than that specious ideologue Pipes, who has been publicly caught out in lies on numerous occasions), the forcible lockdown into a concentration-camp (it’s known as Gaza, and has the densest concentration of humanity on the planet now) and deprived of basic necessities for survival: i.e. food, water and medical care). The hostilities preceding the current conflict do in fact go back much further than 1948 (which you seem unaware of), dating to the appropriation of land in Palestine by the British Mandate following the Ottoman’s control of the region, and the prior and continuing massive immigration of Europeans there (I’m not sure why you put Palestine in quotation marks, since it has been clearly marked on official, internationally accepted maps since long before the violence perpertrated in the name of the Jewish State).”
Actually, as I mentioned to another poster in this thread, I’m quite conversant with the history to which you refer, and differ quite strongly with your assessment. Here are a few quick notes, along with further references if you’re interested. With regard to Pipes, he is a highly respected expert on the contemporary Middle East, but he even if he was not, what he wrote in the words that I cited are 100% accurate. But it is a standard technique to try to discredit the message by attacking the messenger. For all I know, you could be a convict writing from jail, but I still have to evaluate your words at face value, and my quotation of Pipes presented the truth fairly and accurately. With regard the alleged expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arabs, to the contrary, Israel’s plan was to accept the UN partitioning in 1948 when it was attacked by the surrounding Arab countries. You can still read the pamphlets that the Israelis sent out to the Arab living in Israel with them, making it clear that they had no desire to be at war with them and that they should stay. It was the attacking nations that sent messages saying, “A canon does not distinguish between a Jew and an Arab. Leave now, and when we drive them into the sea, you can return to your homes.” That predicted victory, of course, never happened, and a refugee crisis was created by the attacking Arab and Moslem states, who then expelled more than 800,000 Jews from their countries. What happened to them? Israel absorbed them. What happened to the roughly 600,000 Arab living in Israel who fled the conflict? They were NOT absorbed by their Arab (and/or Muslim) brethren – in fact, over the last two decades, countries like Saudi Arabia actually expelled more than 100,000 Arabs of Palestinian background! – despite the fact that Arab land was roughly 650 times the size of Israel. Instead, a refugee crisis was created that has remained until this today – but it was not Israel’s fault!
Here are the facts: “The Palestinians left their homes in 1947-49 for a variety of reasons. Thousands of wealthy Arabs left in anticipation of a war, thousands more responded to Arab leaders’ calls to get out of the way of the advancing armies, a handful were expelled, but most simply fled to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a battle.” See http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf14.html#a for details. More broadly, see http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf14.html.
As for the hostilities before 1948, of course I ‘m aware of those, and the great, great majority were stirred up against the Jews. Please, read your history carefully and impartially. As for Benny Morris, you must be kidding. You trash Pipes as being partial yet follow Prof. Morris? His work has been the subject of intense scholarly criticism – for poor use of sources among many other things – and his conclusions have been rejected by the right and left wing of academia in Israel and beyond. But more importantly, consider this: He is a professor at a university in Israel, openly speaking against his nation. Could you even imagine a scenario like that in the Muslim world? The professor would be dismissed and even jailed or killed. Where is your outcry over the lack of human rights in these Muslim countries?
You wrote: “But rather than respond those larger issues and matters apparently beneath your notice like violations of human rights and Geneva conventions by the Israeli military and government, you query if those who point these facts to you want to know other “facts,” as if the existence of “Hitler’s Mufti” or any other singular individual somehow justifies the wanton killing and displacement of millions of others living near but having nothing to do with such a person. By your logic, the Israeli cabinet’s decision to slaughter civilians fully justifies further indiscriminate killing of Israeli citizens (who interestingly enough are ALL soldiers during their lives, having to serve in the military, unlike those Palestinian women, children and non-Hamas you are so easy about killing). “
I’m happy to dialogue about the larger issues (and other like-minded colleagues of mine will be happy to dialogue with you here as well), but you seem to be missing (or avoiding) the point of my article entirely, namely, that the voices protesting the killing of Arab civilians – which is NOT what the Israeli government or people want – never once protested the quite intentional killing of Israeli citizens. And my reason for mentioning the Mufti and his well-known connections to Hitler was to explain that the same Jew-hatred that ran through the veins of Hitler ran through the veins of the Mufti — even more so – and Hamas follows in the Mufti’s steps in many ways.
You also make a wrong inference about my logic. This is the correct inference: Since Israel simply wants to stamp out terrorism and will do whatever it can to avoid civilian casualties – otherwise, there would be tens of thousands of civilians killed by now! – Hamas should likewise stamp out terrorism and then there would be no more civilian casualties on either side.
My reason at times for putting “Palestinian” in quotes is to remind readers of the myth of the concept of a historic, self-identified, Arab Palestinian people. For convenient references, see the primary sources quoted in http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2007/12/myths-hypotheses-and-facts-concerning_4133.html.
And one last note to repeat where I started. Nowhere have I taken lightly the deaths of Arab civilians or even terrorists, and rather than repeat this vacuous charge, you should respond to what I’ve actually written. Is that too much to ask? And then ask yourself a question: Why are Israeli men and women forced to serve in the military? Because they love to die or to risk their lives? Quite the contrary, it is because their neighbors are dead set on killing them, day and night! Your very charge is the proof that the guilt lies on the side of the Muslim terrorists.
Russ,
You said:
Are you saying that in order for someone to live consistently as a disciple of Jesus, that they must support the nation of Israel’s policies?
“Are you saying that in order for someone to live consistently as a disciple of Jesus, that they must support the nation of Israel’s policies?”
There is a difference between disagreeing with a Nations political policies and cursing a Nation. When one takes the position that Israel has no right to defend the land given them by the Lord, ultimately you are arguing with God Himself.
I can disagree with the Policies of Iran very easily, yet in doing so I do not curse the people of Iran.
I honestly disagree with Israel given any piece of Israel away, yet I bless them in the Name of the Lord.
To call Israel a bunch of , is in fact, speaking a lie in a cursed tone. I would like to see Israel remove by what ever means possible the ist that are placing the people of Palestine in harms way. It is quite clear that Israel would rather be at peace with their Palestinian neighbors. Yet with the ist continued attacks against Israel, that peace will not come about.
To be a true disciple I would say one should walk as Titus 3;1-2 states ” Remind them to be subject to principalities and authorities, to obey rule, unto every good work to be ready,of no one to speak evil, not to be quarrelsome — gentle, showing all meekness to all men,”
What about those men & women serving in The Israeli Military or that of the United States?
And yes, the Bible does address serving in the military, directly and implicitly. The Christian men and women who serve their country with character, dignity, and honor, can rest assured that the civic duty they perform is condoned and respected by our Sovereign God. Those who serve in the military deserve our respect and our thanks.
Russ,
What do you mean by “ist”?
dr brown
sorry i m so surprised , i m muslim and i have many christian fiend who explained to me that christianity is the love the love of others , i think from what i did read it s a big lie . i undrestand know why hitler who was christian killed jews , why americans killed indians and why americans used atomic bumbs to kill civilians in japan nd why they killed million of civilian irakien and now why christians are supporting israel killing childrens and womens using all this sophestiquate weapon given by christians , i don t hit you christians but i complain for what yur are able to do i know many crimes done by the church in the past but i tought that it s changed i m wrong you still have the same appetite to kill under relligion argument i m sure if ISSA “jesus“ is on earth now he could never allow you doing what your are proude to do
Miramor,
Please tell me where you see hate in my comments, OK? Also, are you equating Israel’s current operations in Gaza — with undesired civilian casualties — with Hitler’s systematic murder of six million Jews?
As a follower of Jesus, I deplore bloodshed and violence and believe that war should be avoided as much as possible. In certain cases — defensive wars, specifically — war can be justified, but even during such times, I grieve over the loss of lives, since I realize that all human beings are created in God’s image and that Jesus died for their salvation.
you didn t answer about all crimes of christians in the past “indians , civilian`s japnees , iraquiens and jews in europe . i don t like hypochresie“ sorry for my bad english“ the christians persecuted jews in many places in europe “spain “ in jerusalem and other places and if i remember the jews used to be protected by muslims in many times from christians and now you give the humanity lessons about anti semetism and about promise land of jews . i did know that christians killed both jews and muslims in jerusalem in chrussad i think what happen it s you have short memory and because you changed some beleves you are changing the way to do . i feel that the problem here is not israelites or jews against palistinians or muslims but what i did understand is chrestians VS muslims . i m telling you that the muslims havent any problem with you they used to live in peace with all the others religins and to respect them it wasn t the same case with christians i think it will never change . i hope from my heart that you will recovert from this sikness . i love my christians friends we share lot of value we respect each other we dont need to kill each other . to support israel you must tell them that they have to prepare the good conditions for a good peace and after be sure that no of hamass or others will think to injure any body . encourage jews to kill children will create more hating and more extrimists.. don t forget that the history is measured by centries not by years . where are the romans and the jews who killed ISSA “jesus“ , where are pharaons , where are pheniciens ,greek and others who tought they wll be invincible ? we must all try to establish reel peace not trying to find exuses to each others.
and it s not me who write if some body slape you in you face give hime the other face.
think about love it s the fondamental of your religion
Miramor,
I’m happy to answer your questions, and I actually wrote an entire book detailing the crimes and atrocities of so-called Christians against Jewish people. (It’s called Our Hands Are Stained with Blood if you’d like to read it.) But would you be kind enough to answer the questions I asked you?
Thanks so much.
Dear Miramor,
1. I don’t know any true believer in Jesus who defends the Crusaders. These people were NOT CHRISTIANS at all. Yes, they called themselves by that name, but Jesus said that you will know a tree by its fruit. Never did Jesus tell his disciples to spread the faith through coercion, manipulations and murder. Rather he said that people would know that we are his followers by our love. These people were impostors.
Furthermore, you must realize that many people call themselves Christians because they grew up with that cultural identity. The New Testament tells us that Christianity (or Messianic Judaism) is not a cultural identity, but something that when consciously embraced changes ones life (2 Cor 5:17; Romans 6:4).
2. You cannot compare the crusades, 9/11 and other religious atrocities to what Israel is doing. Israel is a tiny piece of real estate surrounded by more than 20 Muslim nations. They are hardly trying to take over the Middle East, if anything, they keep giving up land (Southern Lebanon 2000; Gaza 2005)!
Now, what is a nation supposed to do if it is getting bombed? My mother-in-law and two brothers-in-law and their families live in Ashkelon. Their children are awakened by sirens signifying that rockets are on their way. They have seconds–YES, SECONDS–to find a safe place. While it is unlikely that they will be found by the rocket, the truma is nearly impossible to live with. Israel has responded, NOT because she has an appetite for the blood of Arab Children–that would be Hamas, who positions their rocket lanunchers in kindergartens and hospitals–but because the most basic respsonsibilty of a nation is to protect its citizens.
Remember, ISRAEL LEFT GAZA! We gave it back three years ago! You can hardly call Israel religious fanatics. We gave them our farms and homes in Gaza. By the way…Israel is a secular army, not religious. Israel is defending itself not in the name of Judaism, as Hamas fights for Islam. They are nation seeking to survive.
I read today in the NY Times that Hamas’s miliatry strategy rooms are underneath the main hospital in Gaza? This is a statement of how much they care (or don’t care!) about the lifes of the weakest of their citizens. Israel would never, I MEAN NEVER, use its citizens as human sheilds.
First of all, its sick! Secondly, it would not work. Imagine if Israel had its ‘war room’ underneath a hospital. Do you think for a minute Hamas or Hezbollah would say, “Oh, we can’t bomb them because they are under a hosipital. We don’t want to hurt innocent Israelis.” No, they would say, “even better!” THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE? Do you think Hamas would care about UN condemnation? And what is even sicker is that if they did bomb that hospital they would be the toast of Middle East. They would be heralded as heroes, not psychopaths. Please…THINK IT THRU!
Ron Cantor
Ron Cantor
think what ever you couldn t change pictures of children killed by israel fire . you speak about israel like they were in this land 1000 years before , i think if i did read history israel wa wstablished not more than 60 years by coming from all the world . the israeliens citizan are all americans franch morocans plolish rushian ……… you are speaking like is hamas or palestinians are coming from march and start claiming land of israel . you must know that many palestinians are jewa converted to islam or christianity so this land is belonging to them and the israilite now are still occupating palestine they dont even respect any resolution of un so make my ideas more clear who are the israelit ? and how they show up in this land 60 years before i think we humans we have a big capacity to forget what it could not fit with our ego . i know that the love who show up between the christianity and judaism by this time is not innocent we must look further than what happen now ,
i m still thinking how you are worry to protect your children by killing others like if they are responsible of sending rockets who are just like fire game .
stop using excuses like that hamas use war rooms in hospitals or mosques …. it s like when the americans wanted to start the war against iraq they told that irak have destructive weapon and after bush told that is a mistake
sory no excuse for killing children and women and if we suppose that hamas are crazy israel the democratic state and the powerfull in the region must be more waise .
any way will see how after the israiliens must explain to there children how much children and women was killed by there parent to establish the“ peace“ in this region
miramor
Writes:
“you speak about israel like they were in this land 1000 years before”
Well Miramor, actually to speak with Historical factual truth, The Jewish people were given this land and occupied it more than 3000 years ago. It is the land given to them that ELOHIM gave to them. In fact it is the very land upon which YESHUA walked a little over 2000 years ago. For it was over the City of Jerusalem that Jesus looked out over and wept. For as He looked out over the City of David and saw the Children of ELOHIM (His Father) in the land He had given them. What was the reason for His weeping? It was because they had witnessed their long awaited Maschiah, yet they did not realize it was Him.
He walked throughout the whole Country that His Father, Yahweh, had given to the Tribes of Israel during His 33 years He walked the earth in the Flesh.
So yes we may speak of Israel as though they lived in their land 1000 years ago, for indeed they lived their long before then and far longer than any other tribes or Nations.
In truth, they lived there longer than the people known as Palestinians ever occupied the land upon which they now live.
Just figured you might want to know the truth rather than continue believing falsely, though it may be as you have been taught.
<<sory no excuse for killing children and women and if we suppose that hamas are crazy israel the democratic state and the powerfull in the region must be more waise .>>
Israel has gone to the extreme to protect Arab women and children in Gaza. We have brought them medical supplies, we have evacuated even terrorists and brought them to Israeli hospitals. You must know that Israel could end this war in 10 minutes if it did not use restraint. Gaza could be a memory in no time except for the fact that Israel cares about the Arab residents. We could end this from the air and spare our young soldiers, but instead we have sent them in to would will be a certain death for some of them in order to minimize civilian casualties.
Let me simply ask you one question: What nation would not respond to missile fire on its citizens? What nation would care more about innocents in the nation that is bombing them than their own citizens? Saudi Arabia? Syria? Iran? Egypt? Russia? The US? What Muslim nation would use restraint?
Second question. Who do you think has killed more Arabs in the last 60 years, since Israel was rebirthed? Israelis or Arabs? In that time, how many Jews to you think have participated in honor killings against their sons or daughters? While I do not believe that most Arabs engage in such behavior, the level of inhuman behavior against its own people, begs the question, why in the world are so focused on condemning Israel, when the Arab nations have committed unknown and unnumbered atrocities against their own people, not to mention their enemies?
Dear Samood,
I imagine that you also must know that from 1948 until 1967 Gaza was under Egyptian control. Egypt turned Gaza into a massive Arab prison. While Israel did not fight the 6 day way to liberate the Arabs of Gaza, they in fact did. The Gaza Arabs were thrilled to be free of Egyptian control. After that, many of them began to start farms and sell their produce to Israel. When my wife was 6 years old, she and her father used to travel into Gaza to buy vegetables. Everyone was happy. Many Gaza Arabs came into Israel to work during the day. Had Arafat not stirred them up (and now Hamas) there would be a peaceful coexistence.
One more thing Samood,
While many Palestinians are Christian, the persecution against them is terrifying. Rami, who ran the Intl Bible Society was murdered by Islamic fundamentalists. Bethlehem, which just a few years ago was a Christian city is now Muslim. The Christians have been intimated into leaving.
Secondly, (I know I said one more thing…) The major majority of Palestinians who fled Israel in 1947 and 48, did so on their own innitiative. Arab leaders called for them to leave so they could destroy the new Jewish state–then they could return. Some of the wealthier Arabs fled because of fear of war. Others fled because of exgerated reports of Jewish cruelity. As reports of Jewish successes spred from one city to the next the reports grew in exagerration at a ridiculaous level. Arabs became convinced that if they stayed they would be savagely raped, even eaten!
And even if the Jews drove them out (which they did not), the oil rich arab nations have treated these people like dirt. They purposed to keep them refugees so they can be used as political pawns against Israel. Once again, these people treat their own flesh and blood like their enemies. Israel has done far more to help the people of Gaza than any Arab nation.
Iran, techincally Persian, but Islamic, has commanded Hamas to continue flighting Israel, and to not accept a truce. Does Iran care about Gaza? Does Iran care about the innocents who will die as Hamas sheilds themselves under hospitals and kindergarters? WHERE IS THE CRITICISM AGAINST THEM???
Thank you Ron Cantor thank you Dr. M. Brown thank you so much for bringing true history to VOR. As a believer of Jesus The Christ { Yeshua HaMashiach } I believe in the Old and New Testament’s I believe that this is the infallible word of God therefore God gave the land of Israel to those who followed Mosses out of Egypt God took those out of Egypt and God himself gave the promised land to his chosen people man did not decide who this land belonged to God did ! When they went into the promised land they had to take it. God does allow war their has been war since the beginning of time the reason being is because of sin in this world. God will take out and entire city using men to do so he has done it in the past, he will do it now, and he will do it in the future. God is a ” just ” God, and even though God is Love and he sent His Son to save the people their are people who keep on turning away from God. Also God told us of these times we only need to read the Bible to see that these wars will occur. For Israel will be surrounded by nations wanting to harm her. Their will be wars and rumors or wars. Nation will rise against nation and kingdom will rise against kingdom. It is my prayer that Arab and Jew will come to know the true Messiah Jesus The Christ that they will be born again and follow Him. It is my prayer that their will be peace in Jerusalem may the Lord place watchmen upon her walls. The promised land the Holy Land the land of Israel belongs to God’s chosen people. I tell you the truth I would not want to be the one doing anything on God’s land that was not of Him or doing anything to God’s chosen ones that was not of God. Therefore I pray that all may come to the knowledge of Christ that they may believe. You can look at the news or read the Bible it is almost the same right now the reason being is the Bible is true it is God’s word and God cannot lie, and the world is lining up with God’s Word. The scriptures must be fulfilled. We are living in the end times and we are eye witnesses of end time events and the things that go on in Israel are not only foretold, but it is the Holiest of all lands on earth our eyes must be upon her and our ears attentive to her, and we must continue to pray for her and bless Israel in every way we can. Also we must pray for all Jewish people every where that the veil may be lifted from their eyes that they may see Yeshua as the Messiah. We also must pray for their safety and that persecution of the Jewish people will come to a halt. I do not doubt that the wars in Israel will intensify for many will be against her and surround her. As this happens I only want to serve Israel and God’s chosen ones in any way that I can. May the Lord not tarry to much longer, and return to take us home to be with Him forever. Pray for the PEACE of Jerusalem. I say to those that do not know Jesus The Christ as their personal Lord and savior just ask Him to show you that He is real just ask Him.
Thanks again to you Dr. Michael Brown and to you Ron Cantor for sharing with us your knowledge and expertize in these matters of history and faith. Dr. Brown I will continue to pray that you will cause those of all faith’s to think about God and what He has said. I love you keep up the good work !
In Yeshua HaMashiach
Shirley
Dr. Brown and Ron Cantor,
I know you don’t know my face, but I saw yours many times during the outpouring at Brownsville (I was just a young teenager at the time). I am also Sarah Longino’s granddaughter (that should help Dr. Brown:))
I just wanted to thank you and bless you in Jesus’ name for all you do for the Christian community. It is imperative that we have educated Spirit-filled voices who concisely and logically dispel the myths that pervade our society these days. Of course we know what all of this boils down to, the not-yet-ended (but will be someday! :)) battle between satan and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Anyway, I thank you for devoting yourselves both to Jesus and scholarly education.
I don’t know how you find the time in your jam-packed schedules to personally respond to all the posts above, but I’m glad you do.
Ron cantor
to respond to your question
<how many Jews to you think have participated in honor killings against their sons or daughters?>
First the first crime against their son is the crucify of jesus by jews like christians believe.
another exemple is when they sacrified 200 jews when they explode part of boat bringing 1200 jews from usa to oblige british to allow them going in palestine 70 year before.
but it doesnt excuse no body to kill his son or the son of others . so we must stop justify crimes by others crimes . we must build together real peace for our children .
for the other question i will give you my point of vew after
Dear Miramor,
I am not seeking to justify Israel’s ‘crimes’ but stating the crimes of others. I am trying to get you to understand why you FOCUS ON ISRAEL when the crimes of Islamic nations against their own people are so much more horrific. Why is the focus on Israel? Have you ever seen the body of a Palestinian man hanging upside down headless in the city square? This is what Fatah and Hamas do to their own people!!! Where is the outrage? Are you on fanitical Isalamic website decrying such acts? Why focus on Israel–who would not even be fighting in Gaza if not for Hamas’s attacks. I will never justify murder by any country–Israel, the US or Saudi Arabia. I want to know why the world focuses on Israel. China slaughters 700 students in cold blood in Tienamen Square and the UN says NOTHING! Israel acsidentally kills a civialian and resolution are passed. It is double standard.
Of course it is expected. The bible clearly states that all nations will turn against Israel.
2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.
My challenge to you Miramor is to let your outrage be equal in proportion. If you are made at Israel, then you shold be furious with the Arab nations.
“Dr.” Brown,
For your possible edification, a quote from one of those persecuted Israelis you are so intent on saving from the Palestinian horde (well, those that manage to survive the IDF’s indiscriminate bombing and Israeli government’s ongoing starvation campaign):
Israel Is Losing This War
BY URI AVNERY, JANUARY 11, 2009
NEARLY SEVENTY YEARS ago, in the course of World War II, a heinous crime was committed in the city of Leningrad. For more than a thousand days, a gang of extremists called “the Red Army” held the millions of the town’s inhabitants hostage and provoked retaliation from the German Wehrmacht from inside the population centers. The Germans had no alternative but to bomb and shell the population and to impose a total blockade, which caused the death of hundreds of thousands.
Some time before that, a similar crime was committed in England. The Churchill gang hid among the population of London, misusing the millions of citizens as a human shield. The Germans were compelled to send their Luftwaffe and reluctantly reduce the city to ruins. They called it the Blitz.
This is the description that would now appear in the history books – if the Germans had won the war.
Absurd? No more than the daily descriptions in our media, which are being repeated ad nauseam: the Hamas terrorists use the inhabitants of Gaza as “hostages” and exploit the women and children as “human shields”, they leave us no alternative but to carry out massive bombardments, in which, to our deep sorrow, thousands of women, children and unarmed men are killed and injured.
i start to hear logic things
i hoope we all start to see more clear
Dear Jesus,
“starvation campaign” ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Israel has no desire whatsoever to harm the Arabs of Gaza. The ONLY reason Israel is there is because of the ongoing barrage of missiles. “But hardly any Israelis are killed” I can hear you thinking. Well, how many deaths does it take before a country defends itself? How many of your children would you let someone kill before you would respond?
And furthermore, it is not just the deaths, it is the constant fear of death. It is the trauma of having to run to a bunker in the middle of school or the middle of the night. Surely you saw the school classroom that took a direct hit from a Hamas rocket? If the kids had not run to a bunker in the 20 seconds they have from the time the siren goes off til the rocket hits, they would be DEAD!
And furthermore again…there would no starvation in Gaza if Hamas would stop the rocket fire and agree to a truce. The ONLY REASON the borders are closed is because they smuggle in weapons. If Hamas is SO CONCERNED about their poor constituents who voted them to power, they can stop the Rockets, call for a truce, recognize Israel’s right to exist, be happy that Israel gave them Gaza three years ago–and their would be more food than they would know what to do with.
The real question is WHO is starving the Arabs there and the answer is HAMAS. They are twisted evil terrorists who take joy in the death of their women and children so they can parade them before the world media so niave people like you my friend will blame Israel.
Correction: They have 15 seconds to find shelter, not 20. Sorry for the mistake.
“Jesus,”
Actually, my primary sources are many people living in Israel with families on the front lines, and they attest to the same realities that the Israeli media (virtually alone) is reporting. How about some of these quotes, first from a Hamas leader on TV and then from a Fatah leader?
First, the Hamas leader, as noted by Avner Boskey: “The following is an excerpt from a speech delivered by Hamas MP Fathi Hammad, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on February 29, 2008. Hammad explains that using civilians as a human shield is not an accident on Hamas’ part; it is a strategic military and propaganda tactic.”
”[The enemies of Allah] do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its [methods] of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry, at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahidin (ed., jihad warriors) and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, and the mujahidin, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: ‘We desire death like you desire life.’ ” (http://www.memritv.org/video.html).
“Jesus,” this is the reality of the situation, like it or not. And just think of what would happen to someone living in Gaza today who openly criticized Hamas. He would be killed or imprisoned in an instant. Yet Israel allows dissenting views to be aired day and night. That alone should tell you something about the battle being waged.
Now, check out this article from the Jerusalem Post, citing a Fatah leader:
Fatah official: Hamas black and bloody militia
Jan. 12, 2009
Khaled Abu Toameh , THE JERUSALEM POST
A Fatah official in Ramallah on Sunday launched a scathing attack on Hamas and described its leaders as “criminals.”
Speaking to The Jerusalem Post on condition of anonymity, the Fatah official denounced Hamas as a “black and bloody militia” that was responsible for the “catastrophe” in the Gaza Strip.
The official warned that failure to crush Hamas completely would undermine Fatah and pave the way for the collapse of moderate Arab regimes.
He said that Hamas was fighting on behalf of Iran and Syria - the only two countries that have been supplying the movement with weapons and money.
“The Iranians and Syrians are using Hamas to undermine the Palestinian Authority and other moderate Arab governments,” the Fatah official told the Post. “Victory for Hamas in this war would mean victory for Iran, Syria and Hizbullah. This is something we need to prevent.”
The official expressed hope that the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip would revolt against Hamas when the IDF operation ended. He also expressed hope that Hamas leaders Mahmoud Zahar and Ismail Haniyeh would be tried before a Palestinian court as “war criminals.” The Hamas leaders, he charged, were responsible for the death of hundreds of innocent Palestinians. “Ever since they came to power, they brought death and destruction to our people.”
The official would neither confirm nor deny a report according to which Egypt was training Fatah activists to regain control over the Gaza Strip. According to the report, some 300 Fatah militiamen who had fled to Egypt during the violent Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2007 were being trained by Egyptian security experts.
Ahmed Abdel Rahman, the official Fatah spokesman in the West Bank, mocked statements made by Syrian-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal to the effect that Israel’s military operation in the Gaza Strip had failed.
He said that Mashaal’s remarks did not reflect the reality on the ground. “Khaled Mashaal was talking [on Al-Jazeera] as if the Hamas tanks were surrounding Tel Aviv,” he said. “It’s obvious that Mashaal has never been to the Gaza Strip and doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”
Abdel Rahman, who is also a senior adviser to PA President Mahmoud Abbas, said that Mashaal and the Hamas leadership were mistaken to think that the Gaza Strip belonged to their movement. “The Gaza Strip belongs to the Palestinian people,” he said. “The Gaza Strip is part of Palestine and not a Hamas-owned estate.”
In a separate development, a leaflet distributed by Fatah in Ramallah accused Hamas of targeting dozens of Fatah members in the Gaza Strip. It said many Fatah activists and supporters have been executed by Hamas militiamen in the past two weeks.
The leaflet said that the Hamas government had placed hundreds of Fatah members under house arrest out of fear that they would exploit the IDF operation to stage a coup against Hamas.
In addition, the leaflet said, Hamas militiamen have shot many Fatah members in the knees to make sure that they won’t be able to participate in any anti-Hamas activities. The leaflet called on Abbas to fire the Fatah leadership in the Gaza Strip for allegedly failing to defend its members against Hamas.
This article can also be read at http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929296&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull
“Jesus,” face the facts. Israel is trying to wipe out fanatical terrorism. Hamas is the guilty party responsible for the death of its own people.
“Doctor”
Please face the facts: the government of Israel is engaged in fanatical terrorism itself knowingly bombarding to civilian areas–and full aware that it is not only not the only solution to ensure the security of Israel, it actually exacerbates continuing hostilities.
I happen to have married an Israeli myself, and I suspect that I have met and had substantial conversations with a lot more “primary” sources there than you (not to mention than too many of the righteously ignorant posters here). For another primary source, you and others might check out the words of this Israeli visitor, who also frequently visits bomb shelters, but doesn’t accept the war-mongering approach that either his government nor voices distant from the situation such as your own suggest:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/12/fmr_clinton_special_counsel_lanny_davis
I should add that I have also met a large number of Palestinians, the vast majority of whom are either good Christians or as moral as the best Christian spirits I have had the fortune to have met in the world: good people as opposed to the cartoon figures of “evil terrorists” offered up in righteous celebration by the likes of “Ron Cantor”.
“Jesus”/Jesus,
Is Jesus your real name? Or are you trying to prove a point?
Marcus,
Thank you for your question. I could ask the same of you: “Is Marcus your real name, or are you trying to prove a point?” Or perhaps you would answer another question: whether or not my parents decided to name me a certain name, or I did, what difference does that make?
I think there are larger concerns I am hopeful still that sincere Christians and sincere humans of all faith will engage with humanely. If the symbolism of my name might help anyone be reminded of this possibility, then that would make me immensely happy. But I hope there are other impulses–compassion, humanity, mercy, tolerance, openness, and non-killing–that will help all to engage with others in a humane fashion. These are the lessons of that other Jesus, and I think they would be a worthy foundation to any individual’s approach to others in this day and age as well.
Dear Jesus or Fred or whatever your real name is, I too am married to an Israeli, and I live in Israel…I am Israeli! as to your comment: “I should add that I have also met a large number of Palestinians, the vast majority of whom are either good Christians or as moral as the best Christian spirits I have had the fortune to have met in the world: good people as opposed to the cartoon figures of “evil terrorists” offered up in righteous celebration by the likes of “Ron Cantor”.
Maybe you misunderstood me. Did you think that I said that all the Arabs of Gaza were “evil terrorists”? If you read my post it is clear that I am referring to Hamas and other radical islamic groups. While I am quite sure that you overstated the truth in terms of the moral standing of the Palistinians Arabs, most are not terrorists. I have written many times that the average Gazan simply wants to survive, make a living and support his family. But please do not forget dear friend that these whom you claim are “as moral as the best Christian spirits I have had the fortune to have met in the world” voted for Hamas to lead them. Did they not know that Hamas was a terror clan? Of course they did; and they chose them to lead them. Did they not know that Hamas would use their wives and children as shields against relatliation? Maybe not. But lets not forget that in most polls, the majority of “good” Palestinians support suicide bombings against Israel.
Having said that, I too have met many wonderful Arabs in Israel–Two with whom I work. My ploblem is with the leadership that began with PLO.
Here is a question for you: Have you studied at all what life was like between 1948 and 1967 when Gaza was under egyptian control? Dig a little and you find out that Israel liberated Gaza more than occupied it. Their good brothers in Egypt locked up Gaza like a prison and treated them inhumanly. In the early years after 67 there was peace and commerce between Gaza Arabs and Israeli Jews. My wife used to go shopping in Gaza with her father. It was not until Arafat and PLO showed up that things turned ugly.
Oh, one more thing
as opposed to the cartoon figures of “evil terrorists” offered up in righteous celebration by the likes of “Ron Cantor”.
…I would that they were merely cartoon figures. In the cartoons you can get blown up and survive. Sadly, not in real life…
And to correct a persistent misconception being peddled here, Hamas has not only indicated a willingness to recognize Israel publicly, it has agreed publicly to accept 1967 borders for Palestine and Israel. It is shameful this need to create an enemy in order to justify a militarily supplied bloodlust that impels not only Israel politicians but their many apologists in U.S. and elsewhere choose to ignore these declarations of an interest in peace, in favor of blatantly lying to the public to justify that apparent need for blood.
Friend,
What deception do you think we are going to swallow here.. That Hamas is a gentle arm of the Palestinian people? They are a group of armed fanatics, supported by the likes of Iran. Their only public recognition of Israel is that they like those they are funded and supported by which to see Israel wiped off the map.
Please stop trying to act as though they are a bunch of people. The of their own people alone cries out for justice and is heard through out Heaven itself.
Dear Jesus,
It is not enough for you to tell me that Hamas is willing to recognize Israel and accept 67 borders, show me a quote? If this is true, why are they not saying so? Why have they fired more than 3,000 rockets are israel since Israeli left Gaza? Did you not read where Iran has forbid them to make a truce with Israel? Is Iran, who says Israel has no right exist and denies the Holocaust, ready to embrace israel? I think not. YOU ARE WRONG IN YOUR STATEMENT THAT HAMAS IS READY TO RECOGNIZE ISRAEL. Next time, quote someone and give the source. And goodness, give your real name…what are you afriad of? We are not like Hamas.
“Ron” or whatever your name is: I would bet any amount that the vast majority of people living in Gaza both before and after 1967 would disagree with your claim that Israel “liberated” them. You can offer such false assertions all you want about other people, but that doesn’t make it true, except in the same self-serving fashion that so many lies function for the lies that war-mongering individuals everywhere hide behind.
A couple more corrections: I am not your friend. And if we used your argument that all who voted for Hamas are somehow responsible for ANY of the subsequent decisions by their leaders, then we should exterminate the entire human race for the decisions made by leaders they selected, and that goes for every U.S. president as well as the former terrorists who became leaders in Israel (Begin, Ragin, Sharon, Barak…)
“Russ”, (if that is your real name)
What deception are you trying to get people to swallow here, that the Israeli government is the gentle arm of the Israeli people, or the peace-loving neighbor that just can’t help resolve its problems by violent displacement, expropriation of land and water, concentration camps, and serial, massive, indiscriminate, military attacks of civilians–in the name of “peace” and security (good job rooting out Hezbollah in Lebanon, IDF!)
“Ron”, (I don’t know why you’re afraid to use your real name)
You repeat the same fallacy you seem prone to: suggesting that “Iran” has said Isarel has no right to exist, no doubt because of the words of one individual you are selectively applying to blame an entire nation of people.
Re Hamas:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1037258.html
Ron Cantor
i feel like before that one time you want to justify israel s crime by hamas rocket and other time by management of egyptian of gaza betwen 1948 and 1967 , but never by extremism of israel and by what the zionist have planed more than 100 years before and how they reach there goal . i m not christian but i thing the basis of all the religions coming from god are the same in islam we know that what is built on wrong fact is itself wrong , the problem here is not hamas because we can imagine that will eradicate them all but we will never eradicate all this generation who is witness of barbary and the pictures of( not population afraid but children killed by israli bomb . sorry your are not protecting the future of israel but mortgaging their well being.
i dont have any problem with jews I have good friends jews nor with christians i have very good friends christians, I HAVE PROBLEME WITH INJUSTICE AND BLINDIG MIND
hoope find light to the peace
Jesus,
It’s alright if you choose to reject my friendship, but like that of my Lord, the only true Messiah Jesus Christ I look towards all men as friend. Do I agree with all, no the least bit. Do I accept the false lies of their religions, not the least bit. Yet, like the Lord I see all men as the creation of our Father in Heaven. All who are without Christ are lost. All with out Christ are blind, which is the state in which I see you are at now. The anger to are directing here is fueled by the up bringing an indoctrination you have had.
On the same note, it is quite useless for any of us here to try an persuade this man in the areas of the real issues involved in Israel and the Middle East, for his eyes are veiled over with the shells of deception. Being spiritually blind, he can not see the Spirit of the Living God at war with the spirit of darkness apposed and set against the promised land and those whom are the receivers of the promise.
It is like preaching the Epistles to the lost world, spiritual they can not grasp the meaning. First they need the Gospels, the good news of Jesus Christ, then upon hearing, confessing and accepting Christ as their Lord and Messiah, we no shall see in them the Spirit of the living God is transformed. Now they have a source from within with which to grasp the Spirit & Truth. “Unless a man be born again, he can not enter the Kingdom of God” as well he can not understand the things of the Kingdom.
The line of discussion here is of no benefit to either party, lest the one is brought into the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, that his eyes may be opened. Presently it is merely vain rambling, an unproductive use of a servants time. For we are at all time, to show forth the light of His Kingdom, that the Son shall receive all Glory in all we do and say.
In the Masters Love,
PRW
I am 65 years old and have become so weary with all the Pro Hamas propaganda coming from the media here in the United States. All I hear is of all the civilians killed in Palestine. I don’t care what war is going on civilians get killed. It happens. We in America have become subjected to mass media indoctrination of being politically correct. Have a war but make sure only those invo9lved in the war remain the only casualties. If the Muslim nations are so pro Palestine why don’t they all get together with their immense wealth, carve out a piece of desert and build them a country. Do as Israel did in 1948 and turn a desert into a Garden of Eden. Why take a country as minute as Israel and expect them to divide it? I myself do truly believe not only Israel not be divided, but she should not turn one grain of sand over to her enemy. As far as the United States goes, she needs to quit playing the big brother role in the world, and support Israel until the end. It is evident by every president’s policy for quite some time has been to divide Israel. Some of these presidents have professed to be God fearing Christians. Not only do they not God fear, and are not Christians they are foolish in their desire to divide this land. Has any one of them read the Bible and believed what God as said about Israel? The day we turn our back on Israel we mind as well dig our grave. Yet scripture says that Israel will be hated by all nations. The Palestine’s think the carnage is bad now, wait until the God of Israel steps into battle. I support Israel with all that is in me in all her decisions.
Amen Pastor Lou, Amen
To the man who refers to himself as Jesus:
You said “I would bet any amount that the vast majority of people living in Gaza both before and after 1967 would disagree with your claim that Israel “liberated” them.”
You would bet? That means you don’t know. Once again you quote no one. I am telling you that my wife’s eye-witness experience was that as a 7 year old in the early 70s went into Gaza where joyful Arabs gladly sold them vegetables. Furthermore, many of Arabs living in Gaza can’t even remember that times since they grew up in a PLO era.
“Israel” wasn’t a desert in 1948 (well, maybe the Negev, but even there, bedouin had lived for millennia). What you’re calling “Israel” was a land worked on and inhabited by close to two million people (more than two thirds of them non-Jewish).
What kind of Christians insist that casualties of war are acceptable by allowing war to be an acceptable response? Such hate-mongers are likely to find that any true “God of Israel” might find it necessary to teach them a different lesson of righteousness and moral behavior.
realy i start to inderstund the point of view of hamas. i see in this discution a love of children blood on the name of jesus . be sure that jesus is innocent of your thinking way . i dont know if god will forgive all who support this crimes .
Actually, I have been in Gaza. I’m just not presumptuous enough to speak on behalf of millions of people I haven’t met. You apparently have no such compunctions, but plenty of hubris.
By the way, I love my seven year old daughter dearly, but I don’t believe everything she says is accurate and objective, even with the best intentions. Again, you can assert anything you want about others (”He wanted me to have that toy!” said while her friend is crying at his loss), but it doesn’t make it true for those others, however much you might think it justifies your claims.
It is a mockery of God when man by his foolish pride dictates how God His maker should operate the world, it is He who chooses the way He wants to be honored. The following prophecies are so simple to understand, that they needed no interpretation for anyone who witnesses the recent historical events on Israel;
“Thus says the Lord: “Against all My evil neighbors who touch the inheritance which I have caused My people to inherit — behold, I will pluck them out of their land and pluck out the house of Judah from among them. “Then it shall be, after I have plucked them out, that I will have compassion on them and bring them back everyone to his heritage and everyone to his land.” (Jeremiah 12:14-15).
“Therefore behold, the days are coming says the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt, but The Lord lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them. For I will bring them back into their land which I gave to their fathers.” (Jeremiah 16:14-15).
As well, those who know not the Lord, are in no position to suggest whether God shall forgive or not forgive. For do we not serve a God, who looking down upon those who placed His Son upon the Cross, upon hearing the plea of His Son, Father forgive them, forgave them!
Those with blind eyes, see not the truth. Yet the truth written thousands of years ago speaks from that day, through today into all of eternity:
“Therefore say, `Thus says the Lord God: I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.’” (Ezekiel 11:17)
It must be known that God declared the name for that land, anyone who changes this name or harms His people will end up paying a heavy price for He said speaking of Israel; “For thus says the Lord of hosts: He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye.” (Zechariah 2:8).
The world pressure against Israel who divided the land to a Palestinian state and a Jewish state is temporal, it is not without repercussions as it angers God. This is the judgment that Muslims ignore to understand when Christ comes back again, and do not understand the consequences of. This is a warning from God to the nations of the world, yet the world is sleeping through His warnings.
In few previous verses; “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: and fire and pillars of smoke. he sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into , before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord.” (Joel 2:31).
“realy i start to inderstund the point of view of hamas. i see in this discution a love of children on the name of jesus . be sure that jesus is of your thinking way . i dont know if god will forgive all who support this crimes .”
I don’t know Miramor, from the Biblical facts, and the ever present truth that God is real and Israel is His land, as well as the people within Israel being His. I might consider choosing the side of the Righteous God, rather than holding onto an emotional view point. History has proven, it is by far much more safer to be on the side of God than apposed against Him. I believe that if you took the time to ask God to show you the truth of His word, you find He does not see things the way you do. His judgments are just and true, His ways are not our ways ans to try an say we know the mind of God is really beyond human understanding.
You guys say that Israeli forces drop notes and try to warn Palestinians about upcoming attacks, but where are the Palestinians supposed to go? All the borders are closed off, and suppose another country let them in, why should the Palestinians believe they will be able to come back to their homes. That’s one reason why there are so many refugees. In the past, they fled in times of war, but were not granted access back to their legal homes when it was all over. It seems Israeli forces are smart enough to realize that Palestinian civilians have no place to go, so the warning attempts might as well be considered futile. All they can do is stay in their homes and hope they don’t get bombed. Also, the civilians don’t read these notes as warning attempts, they read them as “we’re coming to get you”, so they’re scared out of their minds.
Russ,
Is it possible to conceive that Israel might itself be the equivalent to “evil neighbor” in the verse you quote? You yourself might want to check what is affecting your perceptions, since your interpretations seem to be distorted by your own set of blinders. Sharing the name of reference does not mean automatically mean sharing the righteousness associated with it (”Israel” does not equal Israel). I think you might be surprised to discover what many in Israel believe that is antithetical to the precepts in the Testaments.
RUSS
i do understand that the christian on the name of god they did kill the scientist who said that the earth is around and killed jews in jerusalem and did the holocaust in germany and others crimes in the past so don`t give me biblical lesson i think the problem is your interpretation of words f god ,. i will not discuss with the truth where is it , it s not the subject. think about all the mistakes done on the name of reogions. and don t forget that the jews they did kill jesus on the name of god like you believe. how many crimes will do on the name of diferent gods?
OK let’s sort this all out
1. Jesus the one who posted on this site … get a grip or better yet the man you are named after the Son of God let Him get a grip on you ! Read what all He has to say in the Holy Bible. You are named after the Son of the Living God why not take it seriously. No matter how you got the name.
2. Israel is God’s land and the Jewish people are his chosen people that is just how it is I didn’t make it that way nor anyone on earth God did. Who is any man that should say no to God.
3. We are to ” Bless ” Israel not curse her
4. We are to pray for all that is lost and do not know Jesus Christ is their personal Lord and savior.
5. The Lord God Almighty said all these things that are happening against Israel would happen so therefore they are.
6. Russ you are correct in your sentiments about Gaza
7. Pastor Lou ~Amen ~ you are correct in all of your statements and together as brother and sister in Christ Jesus we stand in unity for Israel.
8. Ron Cantor I love you thanks for being you !
9. Miramor we need not travel to Gaza to know that hamas is out to steal, kill and destroy and if any one steals, kills, and destroys do you know who they belong to ? I’ll give you 3 guesses and the first two they don’t count.
10. May Israel be blessed in all that they do and may peace be with her. May the Lord God Almighty my Father in heaven provide all that they need. May they receive supernatural help from a supernatural God ! and May Jesus return even so even in our day.
As Dr. Michael Brown has put it in the beginning ” THE HOLLOW SOUND OF ANTI ISRAEL PROTEST “ all those apposed to Israel … your words are hollow.
Dr. Brown said it in a nutshell when he wrote ” This is the reality that surrounds the people of Israel every day — from Hezbollah in Lebanon, from Hamas in Gaza, from Syria, from Iran (just to name a few) - and at this point, at least 500,000 Israelis are within range of Hamas rockets. Yet when Israel finally said, “Enough is enough,” taking the necessary action to stop terrorists from trying to kill its people, there is an uproar of protest. The moral outrage of these protesters rings hollow, to say the least. ” See above.
In Messiah Yeshua,
Shirley
Shirley,
I am embarrassed for you. Your hate is showing naked through the veil of ignorance you have wrapped around yourself and are parading around and celebrating.
And speaking of hollow, your interpretation of “chosen” is empty to the point of ridicule, not to mention grotesquely self-serving.
Jesus
Please let it be known I hate no one even hamas I forgive them for all that they have done but I am going to call a spade a spade. Parading around and celebrating no not at all I do know however that God will have His way ! You see Jesus I read the Bible and I believe what it says I believe that the Bible is God’s word not man’s but God’s it is not me who said that Israel is the promised land it was God it was not me who said that the Jewish people were His people and He was their God. It was God himself. It was not me who chose that Jesus The Christ be born of Jewish decent no you see God did all that and Israel is the Holiest of all land on earth I just wish people like you could see that . It tears at my heart knowing that so much blood has been shed where Jesus Himself walked.
The Holy Bible is still the Holy Bible and God’s Word is His Word and God cannot lie.
Oh by the way please Jesus tell me how am I ” grotesquely self-serving ” this I have to hear.
By the way I am praying for you that the Lord God will call you unto Himself and that you will receive Christ Jesus as your personal Lord and savior.
In Messiah Yeshua,
Shirley
Shirley,
For all your claims that it was not you you said the Jewish people were such and such, all I read in your posts is you claiming to know what God says. This very claim lacks the humility that God commands in the Bible to all who would follow him. You are taking the power of judgment on yourself. You might more profitably attempt exercising the quality of humility instead.
“RUSS
i do understand that the christian on the name of god they did kill the scientist who said that the earth is around and killed jews in jerusalem and did the holocaust in germany and others crimes in the past so don`t give me biblical lesson i think the problem is your interpretation of words f god ,. i will not discuss with the truth where is it , it s not the subject. think about all the mistakes done on the name of reogions. and don t forget that the jews they did kill jesus on the name of god like you believe. how many crimes will do on the name of diferent gods?”
Miramor,
Huh. there seems to be a double standard here. If I were to go along with your logic, then I would say because of the actions of some Muslims, all Muslims are ers! For your information it was actually the Romans who killed Jesus, not the Jews, they handed Him over to the Romans. If you want the truth, you and I as well as every other human born killed Jesus Christ, for it was for our sins that He had to die.
If you want to debate Religion, bring it on friend. That was one of my favorite subjects while I was finishing my Masters. A little hint, if you knew anything about Jesus and true Christianity, you would know the truth that it is far from religious. Religion is the attempts of mere mortals to try and work their way into Heaven. Like those who die believing their will get them there. Or by their ing others through their , their whole family will get to paradise. Sad fact is, where they end up is far hotter than the heat from the they strap about their bodies. Wasted lives, wasted all in the name of false gods. Mohammed who?
Jesus, spoke against religion as well as the religious, if one were to study His life and teachings with spiritual eyes. The blindness of the world and those trapped in its ideologies fail to realize this truth. Those who carried the name Christian, yet acted out with such rage, were still engaged in and imprisoned by the very spirit of religion that Jesus came to set us free from.
So again, if you wish to debate religion, I am more than game. But please make it worth the time, read the Bible, not just what you hear others say. When I studied world religions, I at least took the time to study their philosophies and doctrines that I could nail done where they failed in their attempts to understand Jehovah God or compare their false gods to the real God “EL ELYON”. And how a whole group of people could live their whole lives serving a false prophet like Mohammed. Living a life believing they would be going to paradise only to find themselves on judgment day, hearing the world echo from the throne room of God, away with them, to outer darkness.
Its like one here, using the Name of Jesus as though it might give him strength. Yet the Spirit of truth reveals that the Name Jesus does surely hold all power, yet one must be anointed, chosen and set in place having been giving the authority to bare the glorious release that comes from that name when one is operating in the Authority of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Likened to that which the Apostles walked in, when they say the lame man, and having no coins to give him, they spoke in the power and Authority of Jesus Christ, which upon Naming His name, even Nature itself bowed before His Authority and the supernatural broke forth rendering a Heavenly Sign, a awesome Wonder, and a Miracle that resounded through Heaven as the Angel Armies of the Sovereign Lord God shouted- Jesus Christ is LORD.
Wow, nothing like that happened when you speak the name of a prophet named Mohammed does it. Nope just a few word that come forth from ones throat - and like the power of the name they have spoken, it falls to the ground as the nothing but a bunch of dry bones in a grave they belong to.
It is because of this Jesus you so loosely speak, that hundreds an Millions of Muslims shall be saved. It is because of this Jesus you have not knowledge about in regard to any truth that Israel shall stand and not be defeated. It is by the power and Authority of this Man Called Jesus, that you, Miramor, the one here calling himself jesus, myself and every other human ever born or to be born, all things in Heaven and Earth shall bow down and cry out “Jesus Christ Is Lord of Heaven & Earth”
There is but One Name by which man shall be saved by, that Name is Jesus Christ.
And it is because of this Jesus Christ, that I pray all Muslims come to the saving knowledge of the true Messiah, Jesus Christ. That not one Muslim parish in darkness & hell, rather that they all enter the Kingdom of God, through their acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord.
In the Masters service,
PRW
Jesus,
This is the difference between you and me I guess is that I do Know what God says because the Bible is God’s word ! Period Have you read the Bible Jesus ? Do you believe that the Bible is God’s Word ? If so there should be no argument about the land of Israel. God does make commands to all that would follow Him this is true, what does it take to follow Him ? Do you know what you need to do to follow Him ?
You never answered my question how am I ” grotesquely self-serving ” ????
I serve the Messiah Jesus HaMashiach !!! Jesus, one more question for you if you died today do you know where you would go ? Do you know for absolute certain where you would go ?
In Messiah Yeshua my Living Lord and King !
Shirley
I really have only visited this site one time, but for the individual who left this comment:
What kind of Christians insist that casualties of war are acceptable by allowing war to be an acceptable response? Such hate-mongers are likely to find that any true “God of Israel” might find it necessary to teach them a different lesson of righteousness and moral behavior.
I would kindly reply that he needs to look at all scripture before going off. It seems to me regarding righteousness, that one cannot have this unless that peron agrees with their views. I guess these forwarding scriptures may qualify God as unrighteous.
Remember the Seven Evil Nations
Ex. 23:32 [n48L] “Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.”
Deut. 7:21 [n58L] “Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible.”
Deut. 20:16-18 [n49L] “But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. [p187L] But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.”
Deut. 23:6 [n56L] [Regarding peace with Ammon and Moab] “Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever.”
Deut. 25:17-19 [p189L] “Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt, How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God. Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that [p188L] thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; [n59L] thou shalt not forget it.”
Land of Israel Mitzvot
Mitzvot n48, n56[1] – Israel was forbidden to make a covenant of peace with the seven ungodly nations (see Deut. 7:1). These mitzvot were (and are still) to be obeyed literally within the Land of Israel.
Even though those of us outside of the Land of Israel cannot fulfill these mitzvot literally, there is a universal spiritual principle that applies to everyone. The universal principle associated with these mitzvot would prohibit any faithful believer from joining any organization that opposed the nation of Israel (as Adonai’s special priest-nation to the world) or that opposed Torah obedience as a valid lifestyle. All such organizations are the enemies of Adonai and faithful believers may not make a covenant with those organizations (n48) or seek peace with them (n56).
Regarding this issue the Nazarean Codicil says:
“Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”
1 Corinthians 6:14-18
Mitzvot n49, p187[2] – These two mitzvot are reciprocals of each other. Adonai commanded Israel to totally annihilate seven nations from off the face of the earth (only six are listed in this passage – see Deut. 7:1 for the complete list). N49 says that the children of Israel may not save anything alive from these seven nations while p187 says that the seven nations shall be totally destroyed. Essentially, you shall not save anything alive but you shall totally destroy everyone. Some would find these mitzvot to be “out of the normal character” of Adonai – commanding that all living things, men, women, and children, be put to death.
That, however, is a matter of viewpoint. Yes, from the viewpoint of the seven nations, this would most certainly have been a barbaric act. But, Adonai did not make an eternal covenant with those seven nations. He made his covenant with Israel. And, since His primary “interests” were to protect the people with whom He had made a covenant, this act was not a barbaric act. It was, in fact, an act of mercy toward His people.
These seven nations were steeped in paganism and idolatry. Adonai had already told His children at Sinai that He was a jealous Elohim. He said that He would visit the iniquity of idolatry to the third and fourth generations of those that committed that act. Thus, this command to destroy everyone from the seven idolatrous nations was actually an act of mercy upon Adonai’s covenant people. The command was designed to prevent their wandering hearts from engaging in idolatry. Unfortunately, Israel did not heed the command of Adonai. They saved alive many individuals from some of these nations. Consequently, as the years went by, Israel fell into the sin of idolatry from some of these very nations.
[...] January 10th, VOR posted Dr. Brown’s The Hollow Sound of Anti-Israel Protests article on our Daily Kos diary. Daily Kos is known as one of the most liberal sites on the net, [...]
To Amjad, “Jesus,” Miramor, and others of like mind:
My schedule has not permitted me to get involved in the discussion recently, but let me ask all of you a simple question. If Israel wanted to kill civilians in Gaza, what do you think the death toll would be? They have carried out more than 2,200 sorties (bombing missions) in Gaza, and with the arsenal they have, if killing civilians was their goal, what do you think the number of dead would be, especially given the dense population of Gaza? Obviously, the number would be in the tens of thousands, if not over 100,000. Then why is the number so low? (Again, I do not make light of even one death, but I simply ask this question to drive home the point.)
It is because Israel is doing its best to route out the murderous, terrorist leaders of Hamas while inflicting minimal civilian casualties. This is so self-evident that it hardly bears repeating, but for all those accusing Israel of atrocities, simple logic and a little common sense demonstrates that this is obviously not true.
shirley
firsbale i did read bible butnow we i will not dicuss with you the rligion, we can do it in private. i just have to advice you to read the CORAN may be you wll see the light.
to respond to te promise land ALLAH promises the jews who normaly follwed ISSA “jesus“ NOT WHO KILLED HIM you can convience your self by what ever you want they killed him and also chursh killed many innocent people because of the bad interpretation of bible .
so try to be fear with your self and i pray for you to find your inside peace and to stop defending evil with good intention.
every one thinks he know the truth, so how many truth does exist on earth?
Miramor,
You say to read the Koran? Again Miramor I will be more than happy to enter a debate on Religion and it would be a pleasure to show why your “Koran” is filled with lies. If its what you hold dear to your heart, then its obvious that you are here as an enemy and not a social member with interest. What does the Koran say in regard to your fellowship with Jews & Christians? Does it not say to not befriend them? To kill the infidels if they do not covert to Islam!
Again, my favorite class was world religions and I have read your book of lies, the Koran from start to finish.
You speak of Israel and how bad they are. What about your false religion and what it teaches you. In your religion there is no room for peace, only the world being ted by Islam. Peace talks? Does not your Koran state that if when facing an enemy, you turn your back for any reason other than a tactical reason, your god with visit your house with wrath? Is this not a quote from your book of lies:”If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men.” or how about this :”Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.”
Praise God that not every Muslim believes an lives by the lies in the Koran, for there are peaceful Muslims, though still lost they to can get to Heaven only through Jesus Christ.
You ask how many truths can there be? There is but One truth, its found in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The truth is found in the very Person your False religion holds up as merely a prophet, Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of the Living God. It is Jesus, Gods Son, whom He raised from the grave and He (Jesus) is now seated at the right hand of God. He has been given all Authority in Heaven & Earth. Everything created is under His Authority, including your Muhammad.
Where is your Muhammad? Oh, that’s right his bones are dried and decaying in a grave like every other mere human being. I guess his god and father didn’t love him enough to seat him in Righteousness did he. No, his father keeps him in the only place he has authority to rules, the grave!
One truth, One Savior - Jesus Christ of Nazareth - One way to Heaven - by the confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and Messiah, acknowledging that He is the Only Begotten Son of God.
The difference between true Christianity and your religion is that we do not seek to kill everyone who does not believe as we do. Unlike your religion that will kill even its own people if they bow not down to your false god, we seek to see that no one ends up in Hell, rather that everyone can come to taste of the saving Knowledge of Jesus Christ, that they through hearing shall believe and accept Him, they shall be baptized with Him (Born again) in the Spirit and they shall, having repented and renounced their sins and sinful ways turn toward the saving light of His Kingdom, walking in truth having been saved from the darkness of the world.
All Praise, Honor & Glory to Jesus Christ . May His Kingdom Come Now, His Will Happen today throughout all the Earth.
In the Masters Service,
PRW
Russ
it seems that you never read the coran not my coran i didn t write it its the world of god ;
the coran teach us to argue with christians and jews and after if they are not convienced to establish the peace with them it s not easy to verify that . i will not respond to your irrespectufull answer . i will just tell you there is one god who create this earth and we believe on him you are free to believe on tree gods or more we are not discussing that here.
but i will remember you that the first world war and the second who were responsible on more 20 millions death and the spanish inquisition who were responsible on the persecution of jews and the hollocaust and the Horichima and nakazaki and indians extermination in USA and and and are all pereptred by christians under bible understanding not by muslims ok ? i m sure that i respect more than any others ISSA ”jesus” and i m sure he is innocent from all this historical crimes and this children blood that we are all witness.
the extremism is this way to think not to defend the right of land stolen by zionist under support of christians who interpretate badly the holly books
think about all that and why ISSA and others prophet did come!!!!!!!!!
Hi all,
WOW, this article has certainly stirred up a hornet’s nest!
To all those readers making comments:
I want to say that on my part, I hold to Biblical convictions with everything within me. Above all I hold on to King Jesus, all that he is, says and does. I believe with all my heart in the KIngdom of God now in its fulfillment and that consummation which is yet to be. I also believe in that the congregation of Jesus is a body of people made of Jew and Gentile (all are welcome, but not all will come) - and yet it was birthed among a believing Jewish remnant. Thank God for that band of Jewish disciples, who did not keep the realization of fulfillment in Jesus to themselves, but also realized the prophet’s words coming to pass in that ‘Nations would come’ into the promise, and knowing also that the law acknowledged the incorporation of the ‘alien’! We stand today as that Body of people, but let’s not forget the Jewish Roots of which Christ is at the heart!
In relation to this I believe the day will come when Israel as a Nation will turn again to the fulfillment of all things, which is only in King Jesus! And we gentiles will experience ‘life from the dead’ from this!
Us Gentile believers who have now been grafted in are to remember the spirit of the Law which is in Jesus, that the ‘alien’ is still welcome to become a full member of that people, because of His blood. And let us also pray for Israel, without them we wouldn’t be here, and without them turning again in the end, Christ will not return.
So to those of you who are Muslims, Jesus says ‘come’ and become part of the People of God. Believers let us not become guilty of hypocrisy by manifesting a spirit of retaliation to those with strong views against us. (We were once some of these! We were all enemies of God - remember!) Jesus never took things personally but spoke the truth as a Spirit filled Man! Speak the truth - yes! Debate - yes! But in love and righteousness, not out of retaliation, even to those who speak evil.
To Doctor Mike:
Thanks for speaking the truth and bringing balance at this time and doing in it in a Christlike spirit. May we all follow your example in our debate.
Dr Michael Brown
Thank you for saying this, you’re right I just said this to a friend of mine “why doesn’t Israel bomb those dirty bugs with something from their huge arsenal and exterminate them all in just one attack? We’ll have a lot of bad comments for a period but we’ll resolve definitely this problem. Why have we to bear all these stupid comments attacking and accusing the poor Israel who is just defending itself from those terrorist who hate life and humanity? We do it one time, we hear those wrong comments one time and it will be over forever.”
Thank you Dr Brown for being so clear in your ideas you make people easily know their place by their ideas “with Israel in all their acts and ideas or against Israel and so with terrorist “ and if you are with terrorist so you’re a dirty bug that we should exterminate to let us live in peace.
Israel country of the Jews, the Jews elected people! Oh Masaya where are you? Why all this time to come back? What are you waiting for? Those bugs’ unbelievers are tyrannizing us. This axis of evil are doing so bad in earth, don’t look to Jews as nonbelievers, they’re just still waiting for you oh Masaya! They just didn’t recognize you when you came at the first time; don’t remember their treason with the Romans, don’t remember all the messengers and prophets that they killed one after the other, don’t remember what they done to Moses, no no they are very good and very kind people, they are the elected people you just don’t understand and don’t know dear Masaya!!!
Dr Brown when you talk about people hearing sirens of a small rocket coming trying to make a small damage that will be unable to do when they sleep or when they are at school you forget to compare those people with those who were forced to leave their houses ”because bombed from Israelis” and live in street or in schools of UN that Israelis will come and bomb also, forced to leave their parents “because killed or putted in jail by Israelis in front of their eyes” and obliged to work or look for anything to do to live since their young age instead of going to schools like any others, forced to leave their cities and towns “because erased from the map by Israelis”, forced to leave their schools and universities “because simply there are no more any of them”, forced to live for more than two years in total blockade without drinking water food medicine electricity… because simply Israelis when they like they find a reason to say that those bugs didn’t respect the ceasefire or something else and bombed schools, electricity reactors, pipes of water, where they make their wastes, blocked all the frontiers, make new check points that you have to have many papers and wait many many hours to pass “and they are sometimes many check points in one or two miles”, well do all what any human can bear as humiliating and very very hard occupation, simply give up to those bugs the elementary rights to live that God give them when they were born free.
http://www.adc.org/flash/palestine/files/eslides.swf
Go to this link to understand that the problem is not Hamas or Iran Syria or whatever but the real problem is occupation
Dr Brown those bugs are suffering every day and night from occupation, those bugs are in their land that they accepted to share with Israelis even forced and threatened by those Israelis like if they were less than animals “ok bugs!” and Israelis are super humans or sorry I forgot the elected people that have the right from God to torture and exterminate those unbelievers “they don’t have any importance for God”.
Open your eyes and look what you are doing. If you say that the crusaders are unbelievers by what they were doing of atrocities then tell me how can you tell that you are believers by doing and supporting those butchers of humanity and you bless their crimes in the name of religion. Oh Masaya what’s this? did you ask those people to do this? And in your name also?
Yes the Masaya will come back to earth and we are all waiting for him to release the world from tyrannize and oppression of those who are defying God by giving themselves the right to exterminate his creations, and doing only the opposite of what they were asked to do.
I don’t tell you that who are defying God are Israelis and all their supporters no because the Jews were the elected people and are still the elected people even after all their cruelty “because even God believe their lies and doesn’t know or doesn’t see” “ Israelis are stronger than everyone”, but they are those Bugs. Why? because it’s like this Bush explain to the hole world who is in axis of evil and he knows better than anyone “than God also” even when he lies about weapons in Iraq and killed millions of innocents and …. It doesn’t mutter he knows just follow him!!!!
Open your eyes!!!!
SHOCKING!!!
This was written by a friend of mine in Israel:
Israel has agreed to almost daily cease fires to allow huge amounts of relief supplies to reach the people in need. Yesterday, a force of Hamas terrorists took over a caravan of trucks that were carrying relief supplies into Gaza. They commandeered all of the food and then sold it to the suffering civilians for profit. Israeli troops was forced to stand by and allow this atrocity, as they had promised not to engage in hostilities during these humanitarian deliveries.
Once again, if you truly love the Arab people of Gaza, you would condemn Hamas.
Before Ron’s wife could go shopping: “Israel Armed Forces interrogating Arabs at Jabalia refugee camp, Gaza” 1967
RON
you can lie as you want , you will be believing by terrrorist’s state like israel ,
continue you did ALREADY buy ticket for paradise, don t worry
This hit home. From http://www.persecutionblog.com/2009/01/pray-for-christians-in-israel-gaza.html :
Tell me something Dr. Brown, even though what you say is true about Israel being able to wipe out the Palestinians if they want to, but instead try to limit civilian casualties as best they can, I still ask the question what are the Palestinians supposed to do? I’m not condemning Israel’s attempt to target Hamas, but really, I would like you to give me a genuine example of what you feel a Palestinian civilian’s plan should be when they receive a note of anticipated attacks since they have nowhere to go. This is a genuine concern of mine (not sarcastic).
Also, what is your answer to Philistines (Palestinians) who lived in Canaan? Doesn’t this prove that this land does not belong to the jews?
it bothers me when i read people in general make references to “christian” and equating this and that with the crusades. but we are failing to realize that all this hatred between the arab and jew goes back centuries. its religion that has caused wars. we are seeing the result of sin altogether and the enemy will always use everything he can to sord discord. but as much as some might hate to admit it there is the israel bashers outthere, they cant see beyond. i see it in the media. some good points were made a while back. look at these scenarios. the balkans. muslims croats serb all fighting it out. while the world just let them fight it out. in that case families were displaced, children were taken from families. the muslims were being slaughtered and put in camps(sounds familiar) countries were begining to take sides, because of religion but nothing concrete was being done. the UN passed resolution after resolution still nothing was getting done. somalia, factions fighting it out, children being forced to fight, and at times killed. same results. the sictuation in darfur. women being abused physically, many more cases of human rights abuses. while the world sat back and allowed the UN to do nothing. all talk but no substance…..last example, what happened in the republic of georgia, same results…..now israel goes into gaza to root out terrorism the way the usa went to iraq, and afganistan, and israel is made out to be the agressor. i know i wrote earlier with my stand on this issue. we can try to persue peace all we can, but that wont last long. hamas ultimate goal is to wipe out israel from the map, but yet the world portrays this leadership as legitamate. yes the palestinians are suffering, but theyve been suffering for years while arafat was the leader…….why are the arab states and muslims calling for a fatwa against israel and anyone that has investments in israel, and not do it in somalia, why is it ok, for muslim to kill muslim, (sunni and shia) and no arab country stands to condemn this, but when muslims go out and use a plane as a missile and killed close to 3000 people from all walks of life and religions then they celebrate, in the very streets that the war is on (gaza) this is sin, i remember when israel gave egypt sinai, and at that time no one said anything positive about israel. israel was willing to give arafat 90pct of jerusalem, and arafat turned them down. hhhhhmmmmm! i wonder why?. i mean this is the same israeli govt who always swore that they would not deal with terrorist. when israel left gaza to my knowledge they left farms, green houses and other things to the palestinians, what did the palestinians do, they just broke everything…..israel has been trying hard to negotiate with the very same leadership that has in the passed in the early 70s financed operations against thejewish state. (ex:the munich olympics massacre)
I cannot help but quote the words of a modern psalmist:
“Life is not right until You split the skies,
The Spirit and the Bride say, ‘Come!’
We long for the day when You make all things new,
We want to be with You.”
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You can fantasize as you want and change the historical realities to prove us that the Israelis are the good and the Muslims “sorry the bugs” are the bad. When Israelis give back something it’s something that they stole from their owners on their blood, dignity and souls. We don’t need any glasses to see that Gaza now or just before Israeli destruction was developed with buildings and many other things. Just yesterday Gaza bombed a 15 floors building on its occupants and just before hours of now Israeli soldiers were executing civilians in the streets of Gaza (nothing new something normal very normal fact for you because those are just bugs). And we still ask Muslims to not fight against occupation and to love the killer and to respect him (why not they are just bugs)
Open your eyes!!!!
I truly pity Shirley, and all those who think they know so well other people and parts of the world they have never lived in that they can justify violence and murder. i pity her and the rest as much as i would when someone else who thinks they know best how to read the bible or any other holy book use that as justification to kill THEM and those they love. If they are even capable of love with so much energy poured into justifying hate.
and yes there were people in canaan long before the jews.
“Jesus”,
Was America’s involvement in World War II justified?
Amjad,
Thanks for your honest questions and your willingness to interact.
First, there is absolutely no connection of any kind whatsoever between the ancient Philistines (who ceased to exist as a people millennia ago) and the modern day “Palestinians” (who are of Arab descent and who have lived in for a few generations (or, at most, a few centuries). It is the Jewish people, the people of Israel, who have the historical claim to the Land, the ones who for centuries said every year at Passover, “Next year in Jerusalem!” The ones who pray daily facing Jerusalem from around the world, whereas Muslims living in Israel pray facing Mecca every day, with their backs to Jerusalem. These are the facts, plain and simple.
Second, when Israel sends out its mass warnings for people to flee, there is always an option of escape for the people. For example, before killing one Hamas leader, they actually phone his home first, urging everyone to leave; then, when people stood defiantly on the roof, they shot a small missile just to get them to leave; then they bombed the house afterwards, killing this leader and his wives and children, all of whom decided to stay and experience death together. When the warnings are broad and general, they are simply telling the people: Wherever there are rockets being launched and ammunition being stored, leave those areas tomorrow or the next day, etc., and the people can certainly do that. Sadly, many Israelis have learned to live like this every day, without notice from Hamas, having just seconds to run from homes and classes and businesses into bomb shelters — and they have lived like this for years.
The vast majority of Gaza is not being bombed, and there are plenty of places for people to flee to. Yes, it is difficult and terribly inconvenient, but it is possible, and Israel is at war with terrorist neighbors. Remember also that this is only temporary, and the fact remains that Israel is trying to fight a humanitarian war while Hamas wants to annihilate Israel.
And so, may I ask you how many times you have been asking the question of where the Israelis are to go when they are being bombed every day by Hamas? How often have you raised your voice on behalf of the Israeli victims through the years?
Hamas: In Their Own Voices from [Link To Video] :
I will be 61 years old if God allows me to live to my next birthday, an I have been “Christian” all my life, but not until 1999-2000 did I realize Jesus was a Jewish rabbi. I knew he was born in Bethlehem, but never really realized he was a Jew.
I went to a church that had a man from Jews for Jesus, and he was showing why and how the Passover was celebrated, that Yeshua is our Passover Lamb, and it was like a light being swictched on. I have such a hunger to know about all the Feast days, I want to read the “Old Testament” unlike before , truthfully, because I used to think it was boring. Now I have read it over and over, and all the commandments and laws make so much sense now. I know this may sound silly to others, but for this grandmother it has made me try to reteach my children and grandchildren about Gods chosen people and He did choose them for it is written in His Word.
I have always had this love for Israel because that was where Jesus was born, but now that love has went to a much deeper love. I do not hate her neighbors, I try to respect and honor all people, but my loyalty first and foremost is with the God of Israel, and then to Her people.
I want to thank Him for being the sacrifice for my sins and for allowing me to know Him and thank Him for loving me and my family.
Dr micheal
i want to ask you please.
from each universty you did get your Phd degree?
it s verry important for me to undrestand the way you think
Very good Dr. Brown. I can see your point of view. I don’t support Hamas’ action one bit and don’t take sides between Israel and Palestine. If I had to fault anyone, it would be Hamas. I don’t have to ask where Israeili’s go for shelter because it has been made clear that each Israeli home at least has their own bomb shelter. I believe Israel is just trying to get rid of these terrorist groups. As you do, I hate that civilian casualties happen, whether Israeli or Palestinian.
Jesus, and those who are like minded
Why would I want to read the Koran ? For the koran does not offer to me a savior. There is none perfect on this earth and we ” ALL ” need a savior the only one who is a savior is Yeshua he is the one that died for the sins of the world. Your sins as well as mine. God ” gave ” the Jewish people the land of Israel he told the Jewish people to go and ” take ” the land. Israel is ” anointed ” with the blood of Yeshua { Jesus } It is not advisable to come against God’s anointed.
It is not surprising to me that nations have surrounded Israel in hatred due to the fact God said this would happen. Who else can foretell the future thousands of years in advance but God himself. Israel has right to defend herself against terrorist.
You have asked what was the Palestinians suppose to do or rather go where they were to run to. First of all if the Palestinians would have dealt with the terrorist in their land they would not have to face that question. They ” Knew ” that hamas was wrong in what they were doing and chose not to do anything about it. They let hamas run free and do as they pleased. So therefore they are reaping what they have sown. They the Palestinians should have arrested the terrorist long before things escalated and got out of hand. Where were the citizens of Gaza ? What where the people in Gaza doing to prevent hamas from sending rockets into Israel ? What were they doing to stop this ? Rocket after rocket went into Israel and they were I guess suppose to just sit there and take it. They asked time and time again for this to come to a halt not only did hamas not listen the people of Gaza never said a word to hamas they let hamas continue in there terror. Where are the people to go. They should have known that Israel would only take so much. Someone posted what ever happened to turning the cheek well you can turn the cheek, and turn the cheek, but may I ask you how many times will you let someone slap you in the face you may turn the cheeks 70 times but on the 71st time you say enough is enough.
It is my prayer that not only the Arab’s will see the truth it is also my prayer that many Jews will also come to know the truth. The truth that will set them free. Israel MUST defend themselves and people who allow terrorist to live in their midst and do nothing to stop them are they not as bad as the terrorist themselves. Their must be consequences for bad behavior. When your children do wrong to you allow them to continue to do wrong or do you stop the bad behavior ? The people of Gaza where warned time and time again. They chose not to do anything. Did we hear one from Gaza say we cannot get rid of hamas please help us I never heard that. Furthermore out of peace and love the people of Israel gave up their homes to the Palestinians to get what a rocket in their back yard some thanks that is. What do Arabs think Israel is suppose to do just sit there and take all of this. I think not.
I pray that true peace would be in Israel however the only way true peace will come about is through Yeshua the one who forgives man of their sins. If one wants to know the outcome of it all they need look no further than the Word of God he told us these things would happen.
Baruch Ha Ba Bashem Adonai
In “Y’shua Ha Mashiach” { Jesus The Christ }
Shirley
To Russ who replied:
i do understand that the christian on the name of god they did kill the scientist who said that the earth is around and killed jews in jerusalem and did the holocaust in germany and others crimes in the past so don`t give me biblical lesson i think the problem is your interpretation of words f god ,. i will not discuss with the truth where is it , it s not the subject. think about all the mistakes done on the name of reogions. and don t forget that the jews they did kill jesus on the name of god like you believe. how many crimes will do on the name of diferent gods?
First of all Russ I did not interpet God’s Word. I gave you scripture that was in the Bible, secondly Jesus laid down His life freely, and no one could of taken that life if the Father in heaven didn’t approve. Thirdly, I would hardly use the word mistakes to define deaths. Fourth, I was not trying to give you a Biblical lesson. If you thought for one moment that I put the post up for just you, you must be conceited a little. Fifth, I would never give you meat when it is evident you choke on milk.
Sandra
i don`t know how did you live for 51 year without understanding where what you suppose “the son of god“ jesus were born , it s make sense because from what i read from most comments , the christians don t know lot of reality and the way they think is about peconception. so you have to look for the truth on different way .
sorry to tell you your only way to overcome your sins is to work hard following the only one god who create the earth. so only one way is ISLAM.
think about that ,
To the one who calls himself by that name;
Author: Jesus
Comment:
Shirley,
I am embarrassed for you. Your hate is showing naked through the veil of ignorance you have wrapped around yourself and are parading around and celebrating.
First of all the one who dares calls himself that name which is blessed above all names, Shirely has the freedom to express herself as she sees fit to do. She was not naked she was open with her sentiments. You are the one who is hiding behind that name and I only have this to say to you.
To the one who refers to himself as Jesus. Is this your real name? Or is a pen name you use? Or do you think that maybe you are him? You cannot be a representative of His, for if you were you would not throw the Name of Yeshau around so freely. Your words are eloquent, and your grammar seems to be in order, but you are a little distorted in you ersatz with the name you use on this site. I will not bother to reply to you any further, for I know but one Saviour, and one Saviour only.
Mark 13:21-23 (KJV)
And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: [22] For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. [23] But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
to all who wait that some body must save them of sacrifice for there sins, tell me please is there any body who can work instead of me and ovoide me to make effort , i will be verry happy . who will give me a prouf that there is no more other son of god who can also decide may be to forgive me my sins but may be witout need to sacrifice just by his murssy , why not?
is there any one here who can explain me the origin of the word of christ or christianity ? because I suppose that the prohet Issa never use this words
There is something about suffering and despair that brings us to strain our ears for the voice of God. Where we have written God off as silent, where we have lived with the suspicion of a distant or demanding ruler, there is a compulsion within our pain that forces us to listen. There is an image of Christ who carried the same burden. And it is met with the promise of one who speaks: This sickness will not end in .
As we look and pray about what is going on in Israel, let us not forget that the spilling upon the ground on both sides is heard in Heaven.
Who is right who is wrong? This argument can be one that never ends, yet in Heaven it has already been settled and the Will of the Father has already been proclaimed, though not yet manifest.
The double standard of the world can clearly be seen within the media an across the world wide web, yet the outcome has already been concluded by God, Who was, Who is and Who shall forever be. He is not bound by our time.
The parties within the Westernized church dry out that we must be politically correct, yet the Husband of Bride has already decreed that we must be a watchman on the wall and sound out the warning’s. Islam is not the most dangerous situation facing the church or the world today,. The most dangerous situation is the lack of adhering to, accepting and fully trusting in the written Word of God.
The fact that a large segments of the Jews living in Israel do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, changes nothing as to the Word of God, Israel is His land and He has established and decreed it to be the Land of His Jewish Children.
Praise God that everyday more Jews are turning to Christ as Lord and those who are so eager to see Israel wiped off the face of the map, just might want to start and run for cover. For when the Nation as a whole turns back, Jesus Christ will have stepped upon the Earth once again and the enemies of Israel will be wiped out and no more. Not by a missile or a , simply by the Breath of God as His spoken Word manifest from the Spiritual into the Natural realm.
Regardless of what the critics of Israel say (for the prince of the air does have modern systems to let his rants be heard), as Christians we must press on in prayer for Israel. Not just for safety from the missiles & of the Muslims, let us pray for the salvation of every Jew in Israel and the world.
Let us pray that Holy Spirit open their eyes to the truth that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
Praise God in the mean time that we serve a God who does not break His covenants or promises even when His children do not walk according to His ways.
Let us pray that not one Israel citizen is hurt during this time or that any children on either side are hurt, let us pray that by a supernatural act God will turn the missiles of the enemy around so that they strike the ones who launched them against Israel. Let us pray that God reveal to the world, the true ugliness of the enemies of Israel.
Here in America, let us pray for God’s Sovereign Will to be established in the upcoming Administration, that we (America) in no way lessen our support of Israel, rather that we shall increase our support.
Most of all let us pray “Come quickly Lord Jesus, come quickly.
In the Masters service,
You cannot earn salvation for it is a ” gift ” from God if you had to earn salvation you could never do enough to earn it. It is not by our works. We all fall short and God loved us so much he saw that we needed a savior and he loved us so much that he gave us His son. He loves you just like he loves me and he loves you so much he sent His one and only son to die in your place. You cannot obtain God by your own doing. God gives his free gift to all that ask. We need a savior because we cannot save ourselves.
” The Sinners Prayer “……………………..
Heavenly Father:………………………………………………………………..
I come to you in prayer asking for the forgiveness of
my Sins. I confess with my mouth and believe with my
heart that Jesus is your Son, And that he died on the
Cross at Calvary that I might be forgiven and have
Eternal Life in the Kingdom of Heaven. Father, I believe
that Jesus rose from the dead and I ask you right now
to come in to my life and be my personal Lord and
Savior. I repent of my Sins and will Worship you all the
day’s of my Life!. Because your word is truth, I confess
with my mouth that I am Born Again and Cleansed
by the Blood of Jesus! In Jesus Name, Amen
If you read the Sinners Prayer and truly believe the words you read, then
Praise the Lord as you have been saved and your name will appear in the
“Lambs Book of Life!”…
ah my god why you didn t send your savor from te bigining of the humanity so even the people living before christianity could benifit from this process? may be your son didn t born yet ?
I know some here are not interested in facts, but for those who are, this summary of Ben-Gurion’s letters and memos from Ezra Danin, senior officer of the Haganah Intelligence Service, all in December of 1947 might be of interest. Put them in the category of the more things stay the same: “Danin favored economically strangulating the urban Arabs by destroying their buses, trucks and cars, cutting off the roads into Palestine and blockading Palestine’s port. Ben-Gurion was persuaded that the Arabs of Jaffa and Haifa, ‘islands in Jewish territory’, were at the Yishuv’s mercy and could be starved out.”
And honestly, can’t those obsessed with my name respect the choice of others to choose as an ideal a person worthy of admiration? How does one get to be called “Pastor” or “Doctor,” I wonder? Apparently not by honoring those who do honor the prophet of Christianity.
“Jesus,”
How would Muslims feel if someone started posting as “Muhammad the prophet”? And since you do not actually reflect the words of views of the real Jesus-Yeshua whom we love and honor, you might want to revert to your actual name (or another one that you chose). Just a word of friendly advice.
Amjad,
Thanks for the good word.
Miramor,
I received my Ph.D. from New York University in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures. Also, you might want to use the correct name for Jesus, which is Yeshua. The name Issa is an error in the Koran.
Are you open to hear the truth?
Mr. Brown,
I am at a loss for your presumption in assuming that I would be using a false name. Surely you are aware that there are millions of individuals named Jesus in the world? And likewise, many many millions more named in honor of the prophet, Mohammed? If you really did receive a degree from NYU, what exactly was your subject of study if such a very basic fact is not in your realm of acquaintance?
Jesus,
I think those people here don’t want to see or to understand anything different of what they want or believe. In this case I think personally that I will be wasting my time here.
sorry i respect you all but you’re just turning around your own ideas without any will to be opened on other point of view or wish to open your eyes on realities.
In fact Pastor if someone has the right to take the name of Jesus is someone who is following what he trully said not the ones who are following the lies on him.
Dr michael
so if the correct name of ISSA is yeshua so what is the origin of jesus or christ ?
wich truth , the truth who tell that we can exterminate children because we re armed by F16 and other sophesticate weapon .
i didn t know that N.Y UNIVERSITY teach so much hate and islamophobia so i m learning things
obout what is an error , i think the error is to think that god has a son and his son will save us by his blood!!!!!
Hey Dr Brown and all the others I see that you answered everyone and not for what I posted to you N°78
Bozart
he why do you use this holly name , it s not fear ,
you wait some body to answer you may be the next year , when jesus will show up
Miramor,
From wikipedia: “The name “Jesus” is an Anglicisation of the Greek ?????? (I?soûs), itself a Hellenisation of the Hebrew ????? (Yehoshua) or Hebrew-Aramaic ???? (Yeshua), meaning “YHWH rescues”. “Christ” is a title derived from the Greek ??????? (Christós), meaning the “Anointed One”, which corresponds to the Hebrew-derived “Messiah”.”
If the Hamas terrorists did not hide amongst civilians, no children would die. Blame the Hamas terrorists, not Israel.
Why do you believe that God does not have a Son?
Bozart,
Are you saying that if someone takes the name of Jesus, that they are following him? What lies are you referring to that we follow?
“obout what is an error , i think the error is to think that god has a son and his son will save us by his !!!!!”
You know it is so hard to sit back an listen to these religious fanatic’s spew all their lies. Yet when they start to speak against the Lord, it reminds of how dark the darkness of their confusion really is.
A merciful God would sacrifice His only begotten Son, that all might be saved. A merciless god would require the of his followers to save but a few.
Miramor, you stated I had not read your Qur’an. I believe I know what I read The real truth is that your blindness has covered the truth and its realities from you.
Instead of all your little childish jabs, why don’t you take me up on my offer to a debate about religion, the false religion you belong to and the reality of true Christianity, which breaks the bonds of religion. Maybe you are like the many members of Islam that have sought to bring fear into the world. You hit with cheap shots and then run and hide amongst the .
It appears the insanity of your beloved Muhammad has taken root within your own thinking an polluted it to the point that it can barely make out what is real & what is fiction. You are at the place where In hear the Word of the Lord speaking that says: ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? or in your own language : 11 ??????? ???? ????????: «??? ??????? ???????? ?????????. The English rendering is : 11-12God said to me, “Don’t pray that everything will turn out all right for this people. When they skip their meals in order to pray, I won’t listen to a thing they say. When they redouble their prayers, bringing all kinds of offerings from their herds and crops, I’ll not accept them. I’m finishing them off with war and famine and disease.”
Is it a wonder that Islam fuels fear and hatred in the world today? Look at its founder Mohammed. What truly is at the heart of the Islamists hatred today is no different than that which fueled Mohammed’s hatred as he wrote the Qur’an.
No Miramor, Our God, the one who did have a Son, that His would be the atoning sacrifice for His followers is the True God and is full of mercy and grace. Not the false gods you serve who are filled with hatred and .
Bozart,
Actually, I’m not able to answer many posts here, so I did not just neglect yours. That being said what exactly was your question? If you can ask it clearly and concisely, I’ll try to respond as time permits.
“Jesus,”
Would you be kind enough to tell me if “Jesus” is your actual given name from birth? Based on one of your posts, I thought you were saying that you chose to name as someone to emulate. Of course, you can post using any name you choose, but if you come onto a Christian website and use the name “Jesus” (as opposed to being someone say, from Mexico, where “Jesus” is a common name), then you can expect people to wonder about it.
So, is honestly your real, birth name?
For the muslim folks posting on here, here are a beneficial few links for you to check out:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Fisher/Topical/ch02.htm
http://www.shoebat.com/
Thanks for your interaction, and salaam!
RUSS
ok it seems that you have all the truth , also the truth to kill children that god gave them life.
i want to ask you how many son god could have , why only one may be more may be daughter , may be have familly how know.
it seem that you are “christians“ blessing the killing of ISSA `jesus` instead of blaming it just for your self fishing because you want to believe that some body can save you , it doesn t make sens . more then that you are thanking jews for doing this crime and loving them . all of you you give picture of angels but special ones angels who take life.
any way i can understand your philsophy , you who believe just on the drem of paul who never seen issa and who is in fact reponsible on the fondement on the trinity and who accept many contradiction on the bibiles just because your familly is christian .
you can t understand the coran because it s realy the word of god who create you and me and who brought the peace and who regulate all our life by rules . you believe what you hear about muslims but the rality is thet they are not resposible on the HOLLOCAUT nor the 20 million death of second war and the extermination of indians in your USA and and .
contunue to love what israel are doing may be the children are sacrified also for saving you and your sins may they are all SONS OF GOD who know?
“any way i can understand your philsophy , you who believe just on the drem of paul who never seen issa and who is in fact reponsible on the fondement on the trinity and who accept many contradiction on the bibiles just because your familly is christian .”
Lord its hard reading these and being a teacher. Any way Miramor, if you had an clue to understanding me you come to realize that my philosophy and beliefs are based upon every living Word in the Bible. For every Word is the inspired Word of Gos written by Chosen men. The writings of Paul after He saw the Lord ( Unlike your false Messiah Muhammed - ours the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the and is alive today to visit whom ever He desires) like that of all the writers of the Bible written after the Lord breathed the word into then through Holy Spirit.
“who is in fact reponsible on the fondement on the trinity”
Miramor if this were the place to do such I would be more than willing to show you multiple passage’s in the Bible that speak of the Trinity. Where ever or who ever taught you that it came from the Apostle Paul may well be the same person or persons who gave you such a illegitimate education in the first place.
The biggest road block in your life as well as all others involved in false faiths is the failure to recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of God. If one were to truly study History as well as Prophecy the conclusion that we are living in the last days is apparent. How much closer does ones feet need to get to the flames before reality sinks in? Regretfully, you as well as hundreds of millions will reject Jesus and find themselves on the brim of the lake of Fire before you come to the realization that indeed Jesus Christ is Lord, He is the King of kings. He is the Son of God seated at the right hand of the Father, all Authority in Heaven & Earth are His and the judgment of the world are in His hands. Yet then there will be no time for repentance!
When you are on the brink of damnation Miramor, you’ll find that the bones of your false messiah and faith in a false god will do you little good. Today is the day of Salvation, if you would but confess with your mouth that Christ is Lord, repent of your wickedness and turn completely towards God to would experience the Truth. There would be a peace that you’ve never experienced before that would wash through your whole being. Then and only then will you come to realize what awesome Mercy & Grace Father God has bestowed upon us. Oh the sacrifice of the Father to give His Only Son, the Lamb without blemish, who is the Holy One, the Worthy One, Jesus Christ.
History and the world are nano seconds away from the reality of His Kingdom, for the Glory of the Lord is about to be revealed and seen around the Globe. Yet those who are deaf to the Fathers voice hear not the truth, those who are blinded by their own selfish desires and sin can’t not see His hand at work nor His Angels gathering around.
As I sat listening to Pastor Kilpatrick last night in our church, it reminded of the glimpses of His glory that we have seen throughout history. To some it all up “we ain’t seen nothing yet - for He has saved the best for last”
Truly today is the day for turning to the Lord Jesus Christ, for the Kingdom of God is at hand!!
Today Miramor you can experience true Salvation - it may well be your last chance for no man knows the day nor the hour when the Father says their life is over. On that day all your false religious lies will do you no good. It’s on that day one must have complete assurance their Name is in the Book of life. The only assurance to that is clear - it must be written in there by the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. For if your name is not found under His, you’ll experience a darkness no living soul has ever experienced and it will last for eternity.
What have you got to lose! Just ask Jesus to come and reveal Himself to you - just say “Lord, I repent of all my sins - especially that of rejecting Jesus as Lord - I believe Jesus Christ is the Lord and only begotten Son of God, I humbly bow and submit my life to Him and accept Him as my Lord & Messiah”. Do it with honesty and a open heart - what do you have to loose other than your soul for not doing it. If Jesus is not real (Which He is more real than the Earth itself) then you have but wasted a moment of your time. But if He is real and you experience the reality of Jesus Christ - then the washing away of your sins and the peace that shall comes upon you will just be the first sign of your new life.
In the Masters service,
PRW
russ
thank you for you invitation , its show how you are kind and lovely and it s make me more confortable because it s the difference betwen you and the isralite who could send me for sure bomb because i don t agree with them.
ok for my last chance that is another think i will tell what i tell to many christian friend of me who are also very lovely ” because i love you come to the islam you will have the real peace and for sure you will keep all the value you believe exept no more confusion about the miltiple gods that the paiens also used to forship”
from adam to mohammed the last prophet that god send . god never spook about son if not tell me why he didn t show him up before .
i m sure that i love issa as all the others prophets more than any one . so a have more than peace in my heart . im so sorry for all those who were victim of the political calcul of the romains in the beginine and the lie of the catholic church who deviate all the spirit of this beatiful religion and did fight with all the opposant of his thinking .
i understand how is difficult for you to think about converting to the islam the countinuous of letter of god . but you can start to learn more about islam with humility.
and if you can t see the truth there is one think said in the coran ” you have your religion and i have the mine” so i will continue to respect you and your believing .
hope you understand my point of view
1. MYTH: Israel broke the cease-fire with Hamas.
FACT
On June 17, 2008, after several months of indirect contacts between Israel and Hamas through Egyptian mediators, Hamas agreed to a cease-fire (tahadiya). Almost immediately afterward, terrorists fired rockets into southern Israel. Despite what it called a “gross violation” of the truce, Israel refrained from military action. In fact, during the six months the arrangement was supposed to be observed, 329 rockets and mortar shells were fired at Israel.
While there were considerably fewer Palestinian assaults after the agreement than before, terror continued. Nevertheless, the IDF did not respond to the provocations. On the contrary, Israel significantly increased the amount of goods delivered to the Gaza Strip.
During this period, Israel also expected to negotiate the release of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier taken hostage by Hamas in June 2006. The group repeatedly increased its demands for the number of prisoners it wanted released in exchange for the lone Israeli captive, but never agreed to grant his freedom.
Violence escalated in early November after the IDF carried out a military operation close to the border security fence on the Gazan side that killed seven Hamas terrorists. Israel acted after discovering that Hamas had dug a tunnel under the fence and planned to abduct more Israeli soldiers. Hamas responded by shelling Israeli towns and has continued the rocket barrage ever since.
When the Hamas-imposed six-month deadline expired in December, Israel hoped an agreement could be reached to extend the cease-fire. Instead, Hamas began firing what would be hundreds of rockets into Israel.
When the bombardment began, it became apparent Hamas had used the lull to upgrade its arsenal with weapons that were too sophisticated to have been designed or built in Gaza. These advanced Qassam and Grad rockets, which have placed 1-in-every-8 Israelis in mortal danger, originated in Iran. They were smuggled into Gaza in pieces, assembled, and fired from launch pads well-hidden and shielded in Palestinian population centers.
Once launched, hundreds of thousands of Israelis have as little as 15 seconds to reach a bunker before a rocket detonates. Hamas has turned all of southern Israel into a place that more resembles a post-apocalyptic world, rather than a modern, civilized society. Imagine never being able to step outside without remaining in sprinting distance of a concrete bunker. Imagine having to dive into the safety of a bunker 30 times a day, every day. Try to imagine the terror of the rocket whistling down, not knowing whether it will land a mile a way, or directly above your head.
Can you imagine the sudden shock when you feel the impact, the relief that overcomes you that you are still alive, and the immediate sorrow and concern that follows when you realize that others like — your family and friends — may not have been so lucky this time?
2. MYTH: Israel has responded to Hamas rocket fire with “disproportionate force.”
FACT
Article 51 of the United Nations Charter reserves to every nation the right to engage in self-defense against armed attacks. As Professor Alan Dershowitz has also noted, “The claim that Israel has violated the principle of proportionality — by killing more Hamas terrorists than the number of Israeli civilians killed by Hamas rockets — is absurd. First, there is no legal equivalence between the deliberate killing of innocent civilians and the deliberate killings of Hamas combatants. Under the laws of war, any number of combatants can be killed to prevent the killing of even one innocent civilian. Second, proportionality is not measured by the number of civilians actually killed, but rather by the risk posed. This is illustrated by what happened on Tuesday (December 30, 2008), when a Hamas rocket hit a kindergarten in Beer Sheva, though no students were there at the time. Under international law, Israel is not required to allow Hamas to play Russian roulette with its children’s lives.”
As the London Times said in response to this charge during Israel’s war with Hezbollah, this criticism “is lazy and facile in several ways, especially in implying a moral relativism between the two sides that does not exist. This is not the contest between misguided equals that many in the West seem to see. One is the region’s lone democracy, which for much of its existence has faced a very real existential threat and would like, if possible, to live in peace with its neighbors. The other is a terrorist organization, bent on preventing such a future.”
Furthermore, Since Hamas’ stated objective is the destruction of Israel, isn’t the appropriate response the destruction of Hamas? Wouldn’t random missile strikes on Palestinian cities be proportionate to Hamas rocket attacks on southern Israel? Can you imagine any of Israel’s critics accepting those responses?
When Palestinian terrorists plant bombs at Israeli shopping malls and kill and maims dozens of civilians, would the “proportionate response” be for Israelis to plant bombs in Palestinian malls? No one in Israel believes this would be a legitimate use of force. Thus, Israel is left with the need to take measured action against specific targets in an effort to either deter Palestinian violence or stop it.
What would America do if terrorists fired thousands of rockets targeting U.S. cities? After 9/11, we saw that America took the same type of action as Israel by launching military strikes against the terrorists. U.S. forces used overwhelming force and though they never targeted civilians, some were inadvertently killed. Americans believe in Colin Powell’s doctrine, which holds that “America should enter fights with every bit of force available, or not at all.”
The United States uses overwhelming force against its enemies, even though the threats are distant and pose no danger to the existence of the nation or the immediate security of its citizens. The threat Israel faces is immediate in time and physical proximity, and poses a direct danger to Israeli citizens. More than 6,000 rockets have now fallen on Israel’s cities and now that Hamas has acquired long-range missiles, more than 900,000 civilians are in danger. Still, Israel has not used its full might as the Powell Doctrine dictates. The use of force has been judicious and precise.
Israeli soldiers do not deliberately target noncombatants. The murder of innocents is the goal of the Palestinian terrorists. In fact, what other army drops leaflets to warn people to leave an area they intend to attack even though it gives up the element of surprise and allows the bad guys to hide as well as the innocent to escape?
IDF activities are governed by an overriding policy of restraint and a determination to take all possible measures to prevent harm to innocent civilians.
No innocent Palestinians would be in any danger if the Palestinian Authority took steps to stop terrorism or if the international community, especially the Arab world, had pressured Hamas to stop attacking Israel.
No innocent Palestinians would be in danger if Hamas terrorists did not deliberately hide among them. If the peace-seeking Palestinians prevented the terrorists from living in their midst, Israel would have no reason to come to their neighborhoods.
It is a tragedy whenever innocent lives are lost, and Israelis have consistently expressed their sadness over Arab casualties. By contrast, when innocent Israelis are murdered by terrorists, Hamas holds rallies to celebrate the murders.
3. MYTH: Palestinians in Gaza are innocent victims.
FACT
It is tragic that many Palestinians who are not directly involved in terrorism are suffering as a result of the actions of their leaders. While no one wants to see any noncombatants harmed, it is important to acknowledge that all Palestinians in Gaza bear some responsibility for their current predicament. After all, they voted to empower Hamas in an election in which they knew the organization’s platform called for the destruction of Israel and the use of terrorism to achieve its aims.
The Palestinians in Gaza have done nothing during the last three years to stop Hamas from launching rockets into Israel. At any time the people could have said, “Enough! We do not support terror.” Instead of allowing rocket crews to fire Qassams from their houses, yards, or neighborhoods, the people could have said, “Stop! I will not allow you to make us a target. I will now allow you to use my family as a shield.”
For the last three years, the Palestinians of Gaza have said, in effect, “We don’t mind if Israelis are murdered by Hamas rockets, but the world should support us.”
During World War II, the German people were not spared suffering from the Allied invasion because they were noncombatants or because some could claim they were not Nazis and did not support Hitler. All the German people were held to account for their failure to stop their leaders from carrying out their aggression and genocidal policies.
The Palestinians now are also being held to account. What is different, however, is that unlike the Allies in World War II, Israel is doing everything possible to avoid hurting Palestinian noncombatants despite their culpability. Even now the Palestinians have the power to stop the war by demanding that Hamas cease firing rockets. Alas, they refuse to take the one step within their power to ease their suffering.
4. MYTH: Israel’s operation in Gaza will only embitter Palestinians and make them seek revenge rather than peace.
FACT
After the Blitz in World War II, the British did not worry whether Germans would hate them for bombing their cities. In fact, unlike Israel, the allies had little concern during the war for inflicting suffering on German civilians. Undoubtedly, many Germans still harbor anger toward the British and other allies for their actions during the war, but this did not prevent Germany from ultimately coming to terms with its neighbors and becoming a peaceful member of the international community.
It is not Israeli actions that provoke Palestinians to choose terror over peace, it is the indoctrination of Hamas, which teaches children from an early age to hate Jews, to seek the destruction of Israel and to glorify martyrdom.
5. MYTH: Israel should negotiate a cease-fire with Hamas.
FACT
Hamas does not negotiate with Israel. Hamas denies Israel’s right to exist. Hamas refuses to abide by previously signed agreements. Even the recently-expired six-month “cease-fire” between Israel and Hamas had to be slowly and painstakingly negotiated through Egypt because Hamas would not talk to Israel.
Throughout 2008, Israel worked with the United States toward an equitable two-state solution with the Palestinian Authority while Hamas did everything in its power to disrupt and derail the peace process — firing thousands of rockets into Israeli towns and cities, firing on Israeli soldiers and civilians, and attempting to infiltrate Israel for the purpose of committing suicide bombing attacks. Hamas also continues to hold 22-year-old Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier they kidnapped in June 2006.
Hamas made clear that the “cease-fire” was not a prelude to peace. On the contrary, Hamas used the time to build more tunnels to smuggle weapons and supplies from Egypt; to build more rockets and to improve the range and accuracy of its existing arsenal. A new cease-fire before the tunnels and weapons are destroyed or neutralized would simply give Hamas the opportunity to follow the example of Hezbollah and rearm and regroup for a future battle to achieve its goal of Israel’s destruction.
6. MYTH: Hamas targets military objectives.
FACT
Hamas consistently judges the success of their attacks by the number of Israelis they kill — men, women, children. Hamas does not even try to attack military targets; their rockets are directed toward towns, cities and farms rather than military bases. The group’s rockets land on playgrounds, apartment buildings, public parks, schools and private homes.
Hamas terrorists choose not to expose themselves by firing these weapons from open areas. They construct launch pads in densely populated regions in Gaza, using the local Palestinian population as a shield because they do not care if their fellow Palestinians are killed by their own misfiring rockets (as frequently occurs) or by retaliatory strikes by Israel. The leaders of Hamas, like their ideological soul mates in Hezbollah, actually prefer that Israel hits back because they know that if civilians inadvertently are casualties, the international community will blame the Israelis.
7. MYTH: Hamas fears Israel’s military might.
FACT
Hamas terrorists believe they are fighting a holy war against infidels and that is why no diplomatic agreement with them is possible. It is their religious conviction that they must create an Islamic state and that there is no place in the Islamic world for a Jewish state (or a Christian one for that matter).
Because of their faith, Hamas foot soldiers believe Allah will welcome them to Paradise if they are killed by Israel in what they see as their defense of Islam. The Hamas terrorists’ extremism goes much further. It would be one thing if they were willing to sacrifice their own lives for their beliefs, but they also are prepared to jeopardize the lives of others as well. That is why they have no reticence about using their fellow Palestinians as shields. If Israel is dissuaded from attacking for fear of killing innocents, Hamas can continue to terrorize Israelis with impunity. If Israel does attack, Hamas will use the death of any noncombatants for propaganda purposes and to rally support.
At the first sign of danger, the leaders of Hamas typically run and hide. Their bravery extends to sending young disciples to become martyrs and using the rest of the population to protect themselves.
8. MYTH: At the end of this war, Israel will have to negotiate with Hamas.
FACT
Some analysts suggest that Israel cannot destroy Hamas or provoke regime change in Gaza and, therefore, Israelis will have to negotiate in the end with Hamas, making this war a pointless exercise in destruction.
Hamas has not hidden its objective of destroying Israel. It has conducted a three-year terror war since Israel’s evacuation of Gaza, which followed the five-year Palestinian Intifada that claimed more than 1,000 Israeli lives. No country would show the degree of restraint that Israel exhibited as its cities were rocketed.
The purpose of the Israeli operation is to reduce the possibility of Hamas threatening Israeli lives to as close to zero as possible. No one should expect that the outcome of the war will be a desire on the part of either side to negotiate with the other. Article 13 of the Hamas covenant makes clear the group’s raison d’etre: “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors” (Article 13).
For Israel, the notion of negotiating with Hamas was best summed up by Golda Meir when she said, “They say we must be dead. And we say we want to be alive. Between life and death, I don’t know of a compromise.”
9. MYTH: Israel deliberately attacked a UN school.
FACT
They say that truth is the first casualty of war and Israel has frequently found this to be the case. Reports of Israeli atrocities in its military operations are often out of context, misleading, half-truths, or outright fabrications. Israel often reinforces negative media reports by reacting in a knee-jerk way to accept blame when asked for a reaction to allegations. The media does not wait to learn the truth because that typically requires careful, dispassionate analysis that does not conform to journalists’ need to immediately fill time and space.
The best example of this was the infamous case that occurred during an Israeli anti-terror operation in Gaza in 2000 when a TV broadcast showed a Palestinian father shielding his son from bullets. The child was allegedly killed and Israel was immediately blamed. It took many months, but we now know Israeli troops did not kill Mohammed al-Dura.
Israel faced a similar rush to judgment after reports of an Israeli attack on January 6, 2009 on a UN-run school in Jabalya. The building was not being used as a school at the time but was sheltering Palestinian noncombatants. Initial reports said at least 30 Palestinians were killed and UN officials claimed they had given Israeli forces coordinates of this building and others that they said were not associated with Hamas. The incident was immediately portrayed as a deliberate Israeli attack on innocent people.
The details of what happened are still under investigation, but Israel maintains it was not aware that the building was being used as a shelter and that Israeli forces fired at the building because they were attacked by Hamas terrorists launching mortars from the area. Israel later identified two of the casualties at the site as Imad and Hassan Abu Asker, who served as heads of the Hamas mortar units in Gaza. A witness from Jabalya said that he had seen Abu Asker in the area of the school right before the attack when he answered a call for volunteers to pile sand around the camp “to help protect the resistance fighters.” In addition, two residents of the area near the school told the Associated Press they had seen a small group of terrorists firing mortar rounds from a street close to the school. A series of explosions followed, indicating the presence of munitions and explosives in the building, which was not being used as a school at the time.
This is not the first time terrorists have fired mortars from a school in Gaza, nor is it the first time terrorists have exploited UN facilities. UN officials in Gaza, who never condemn Palestinian terror (the UN never passed a resolution condemning Hamas terrorism), have a long record of looking the other way while Hamas carries out its activities. UN officials in Gaza are there to help Palestinians and their bias often clouds their judgment and therefore independent verification is needed before accepting their claims.
We do know that through its use of civilians as shields, Hamas has brought death and destruction to the people of Gaza as well as southern Israel. The loss of life in Jabalya is tragic and would not have happened if Hamas was not rocketing Israel. The rush to blame Israel is also a reminder that first reports out of Gaza cannot be trusted.
10. MYTH: Media coverage of the Gaza war is fair and accurate.
FACT
Israel has learned that its enemies will do everything they can to manipulate the media to influence public opinion during conflicts such as the one going on in the Gaza Strip. Israel will be accused of massacres, fabricated casualty figures will be distributed, photographs will be doctored and journalists will be threatened. These and other ploys will be used to create sympathy for the Palestinians and cast aspersions on Israeli forces in the hope of turning world opinion against Israel.
Too often, irresponsible journalists have repeated unverified and often inaccurate information in their haste to be the first to report a story. In an effort to present an evenhanded account, some reporters have the mistaken belief that allowing an Arab spokesperson to lie and then giving an Israeli a chance to respond represents a balanced account. This is like allowing a spokesperson to accuse Israelis of beating their spouses and then inviting an Israeli to deny that they beat their husbands and wives. Israel is always put on the defensive, often through outrageous and false accusations, which are repeated by other media so lies become accepted as truth.
One of the first examples of this in the Gaza war occurred after Israeli forces fired on a UN-run school on January 6, 2009. The press immediately reported that more than 30 Palestinians seeking shelter in the building were killed and the attack was portrayed as a deliberate assault on innocent people. Hours later, Israeli investigators reported that they had fired on the building because they were attacked by Hamas terrorists launching mortars from the area. Witnesses supported the Israeli account, but the initial impression was already created and reinforced by repeated claims by UN officials discounting the Israeli version.
Israel was consistently victimized by Arab propaganda and media irresponsibility during the 2006 Lebanon War. Israel was accused of massacres that never happened. Reuters was duped by doctored photos and had to withdraw them. Other photos, showing Hizballah fighters setting up rockets in civilian neighborhoods were suppressed because they did not conform to Hizballah’s propaganda message that Israel was indiscriminately attacking innocent Lebanese.
Hamas has adopted a similar approach. As CNN’s Anderson Cooper reported, “Inside Gaza, press controlled by Hamas is heavy-handed. There are few press freedoms inside Gaza and Hamas controls who reports from there and where they can go. While pictures of wounded children being brought to hospitals are clearly encouraged, we rarely see images of Hamas fighters or their rockets being fired into Israel.”
Israel naturally wants to shape media coverage as well, but Israelis know the first time they are caught telling the type of lies common to the other side their credibility will be shot. Moreover, while they may want to exert some influence by, for example, limiting reporters’ access to troops, the other side still succeeds in making its case. As CNN’s Nic Robertson noted in criticizing Israel’s decision not to embed reporters during the Gaza operation, “The officials we talk to say it’s for security and our safety, but it creates an impression that they don’t want the suffering that’s happening in the Gaza Strip right now to be witnessed by the world, but it is and right now you could make a real case that the message that’s coming out is one that’s essentially controlled by people that are perhaps more partisan to the situation inside the Gaza Strip than a lot of international journalists.”
Given the history of coverage of the Middle East conflict, it behooves journalists to take great care in how they report stories from both sides of the Gaza battlefront and it will be up to those following the coverage to hold the reporters to the highest journalistic standards.
Even before Israel initiated Operation Cast Lead, many journalists were quick to report whatever they were told by Hamas. When Hamas staged blackouts in Gaza, the media incorrectly reported that Israel was preventing the Gazans from having fuel and electricity. Israel was regularly blamed for a “humanitarian crisis” in Gaza while, at the same time, truckloads of goods were sent in from Israel each day. While Israel’s air attacks on Gaza immediately made the front page of newspapers around the world, the rocket barrages on southern Israel, and the impact they have had on the population over the last three years, have rarely been mentioned.
The media often turns conflicts into numbers games, keeping running tallies of casualties. Israel always is accused of disproportion because fewer Israelis typically die in confrontations. Israelis, however, are under no obligation to take greater casualties for the sake of looking better in the media box score. It also should come as no surprise that a regular army that is highly trained and is targeting terrorists will kill more people than the terrorists who are indiscriminately firing explosive rockets at civilian population centers in Israel.
The casualty figures reported by Palestinians have also proven completely unreliable in the past and no one should take them as fact. We know that the Palestinians will routinely call attacks “massacres” and invent large numbers of fatalities, so journalists should be on guard for such unverified claims. Even when bodies are presented as evidence, we have learned that they are often not the victims of an Israeli attack and sometimes they are not even dead (a classic Palestinian video shows a funeral in which the pall bearers drop the stretcher with the “corpse” who then gets up and runs away). Perhaps the most dramatic example occurred when the Washington Post published a photograph during the first Lebanon War of a baby that appeared to have lost both its arms. The UPI caption said that the seven-month-old had been severely burned when an Israeli jet accidentally hit a Christian residential area. The photo disgusted President Reagan and was one reason he subsequently called for Israel to halt its attacks. The photo and the caption, however, were inaccurate. The baby, in fact, did not lose its arms, and the burns the child suffered were the result of a PLO attack on East Beirut.
Early in the Gaza war, the media reported that nearly 300 Gazans were killed in the incursion. These numbers came from Palestinian sources. Moreover, what many reporters left out is the fact that even Palestinians admitted the majority of those casualties were Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists.
Some reports have also cited UN officials on conditions in Gaza and these must also be treated as suspect. UN representatives in Gaza are not impartial observers; they are individuals there specifically to aid the Palestinians and are naturally sympathetic to their cause. UN operatives in Palestinian territories have often been found to be apologists for terror with an animus toward Israel. Richard Falk, the special rapporteur on the Palestinian territories, for example, has a long history of venomous anti-Israel remarks.
The media is reporting how the Arab world is outraged by Israeli actions, but this is also not a complete account of the facts. First, most of the Arab world does not get its news from the Western media, which at least claims a measure of objectivity; the leading source of news for most Arabs is Al-Jazeera. This network has no pretensions that it is balanced and presents non-stop coverage from a Palestinian perspective with the aim of generating hostility toward Israel. Al-Jazeera has not been reporting on the incessant rocket fire on Israel or its impact on the population. Still, what is striking is how many Arab leaders and commentators have blamed Hamas for provoking Israel. Also, while Hamas has received some rhetorical support from Arab states, they have shown no interest in coming to the group’s defense. Accurate reporting would note that for all their statements of support for the Palestinian cause, none of the Arab states are willing to do any more to defend them.
It is a journalist’s duty to report on every situation in as unbiased a manner as possible. To do this, reporters who interview Palestinian spokespeople or hospital officials should check their facts with other sources, including the IDF and the Israel Foreign Ministry, both of which have been historically honest in their fact-collecting. If journalists are not careful in their reporting of the situation in Gaza they will be later castigated by their colleagues, as was the case after the last Lebanon War.
shirley
BLABLA BLA BLABLABLA
hAMAS Would DISTROY ISRAEL may be USA may be the world , it s like the ant who decide to distroy the elephent .
oh my Allah , where is M. pytagore to show us the logic
miramor,
“Hamas would destroy the world”??, please tell me you are joking! The only thing Hamas can destroy is their own people, which was also happening before Israel attacked Hamas. Hamas is very cruel to its people on a regular day. The only reason Israel attacked Hamas was because Hamas keeps firing missiles at Israel, which Hamas has been doing for years. Although Israel tried to keep peace by not responding to all those missiles through the years, they are only now responding to Hamas because this can’t go on threatening the lives of Israeli people. Hamas is now paying the price, and unfortunately, the Palestinian people are suffering because of them. Hamas does not care about Palestinian civilians. They use the strategy of using the civilians as shields, with the hopes of Israelis killing many innocent lives so the world can see this and make Israel look like a terrorist nation. And they hope other nations will feel sorry for them and wipe out Israel. If they just leave Israel alone, there will be no problems. This will never happen though because Islam teaches to hate the Jews. You should know this. The only reason Israel became a state is because the Jews were constantly threatened in Palestine by muslims, so they needed their own state to have a place to live and keep them safe. In fact, Jews encouraged Arabs to live there with them in peace. It’s only a small piece of land, so there should really be no fuss, but the main problem is that Islam teaches hatred to the Jew.
Amjad
i think you just weak up or just come from other planet , tell me other think than reason of establishment of jews is palestinien not zionism , not hollocaust , not a big kingdom of israel not a scripture in bible you must chose some thing more reasonable.
ok i think i will tell hamas to stop rocket and to palestinien to leave gaza and palestin may be to go to platune to make you all happy .
for the children who died , i will tell to there gandfathers in graves why did you lived in this place it was isralit land so you are responsable on death of your grand sons and i will blame the world for not keeping this land for 3000 years for the israeli when they would decide to return back .
so i have lot of think to do to not be blamed
interesting images from the holy land:
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/10156
jesus
thank you for showing who is the terrorist
miramor,
You are missing the point. Yes it is an enormous tragedy that so many Palestinians have died, no one denies that. Hamas is to blame. Israel didn’t just wake up one day and say “hmm, I think I’ll go kill a bunch of Palestinians”. Hamas is to blame.
You need to forget about who owns the land; this should not be the focus. I don’t even care that Jews lived there 2,000 years ago. Jews began immigrating there again before the Holocaust in the early 1900’s, so you can’t say Jews only moved there because of the Holocaust or Zionism. They were being mistreated all over the world at that time and they were homeless and had no place to live, so the British allowed them to immigrate to small unoccupied desert areas that no Arab originally had problems with. Overtime, God blessed this desert land given to them to become prosperous and the neighboring Arabs became jealous and started mistreating them very badly, this is true! Just a small piece of desert land that no one cared about before then! In order to ensure Jewish survival, they were granted their own small state, especially after what happened in the Holocaust, where 1/3 of the race was exterminated. They were happy to live with the Arabs before Israel became a state, but it was not the other way around due to Islamic teachings in Quaran about Jews. The 600,000 or so Palestinian refugees happened because certain Muslim leaders told the Palestinians to leave while the violent Muslims came to wipe out the new Israelis. Did you also know that 900,000 Jewish refugees were forced out of Muslim countries at that time? Israel accepted the Jewish refugees into their small land, but the neighboring Muslim countries would not accept the Palestinian refugees into their much larger land, so they could use this as a strategy to show the world that Israel was the cause of refugees, when actually the Muslim leaders who hated Israel was the cause of the Palestinian refugees. In short, most Palestinian refugees became this way for fear of losing their lives from their own people trying to take out Israel. There are many lies being spread about the truth of this in the Muslim world. You should be able to see this because Islam hates Jews and has the purpose of acheiving world dominance by force as Prophet Muhammad modeled. I wish he wasn’t the forceful character I know him to be. This should not be how to live life.
mirramor and “jesus”,
You are being told lies. Israel is not to blame. It is Hamas. You can show me all those sad, terrible pictures of all the people that died. It seriously makes me cry and cry and cry, but it is Hamas fault. Stop blaming Israel! It is Hamas fault! You have to know this! Israel is not “trying” to kill innocent people. They are trying to stop Hamas from killing Israeli people, but Hamas puts Palestinians civilians in the way of death to make Israel look bad. It is Jihad to them. They don’t want peace with Israel, never did. They only want extremist Jihad rule in all of the land, but Israel disrupts this plan, even though Israel tries to live peacefully among themselves. I’m ashamed of these Muslims! You need to wake up! I have my doubts on if you really know what Quaran and Hadith teaches, because it makes sense why Hamas and other terrorists live the way they do, and what their goal is….world domination by force. Maybe I misunderstand you, and you do know what it teaches and actually agree with world take-over by force. If this is true, you can ignore everything I just said because you are blinded and will definitely not listen to reason or think logically. Yes the large death of Palestinians is an abomination, but it is Hamas fault! Think this through!
Amjad,
To use your own short-sighted logic, Hamas didn’t just wake up one morning and decide to kill. They were responding to the same lethal brutalities that Israel is currently engaging in that have been going on for generations. And I’m sorry to say I’ve personally heard countless Israelis–and others–over the years pledge to do exactly that–kill innocent people because of where they were born (though they might use a host of attempts at dehumanizing them with epithets such as “animals,” “bugs” etc). For those interested in such semantics, that is the exact definition of genocide. That includes some of those Israeli leaders you seem so determined to support and exonerate from the exact crimes you manage only to put at the feet of Hamas (except Israel is so much more efficient at it–if you count as “efficient” killing twice as many women and children as any other casualty).
Speaking of semantics, Shirley might want to investigate the meaning of “fact,” which I know is a tricky word, but does not equal “assertion.” Maybe she convinces herself of the rightness of things just by stating them (something she’s already proclaimed in her celebrating her ignorance by claiming she does not need to actually personally encounter any of those she is sentencing to death), but I don’t think such assertions are going to persuade anyone less bloodthirsty or hate-mongering. More pity for you, poor thing.
And I’m not sure it will satisfy those hung up on my name (a blatantly puerile sort of ad hominen decoy from all I can tell), but the name was selected for me BEFORE my birth (though some seem to think that AT birth is sufficient justification for some weird sort of credibility). Anyone want to know my middle name next?
To Miramor:
Miramor’s question.
you can t understand the coran because it s realy the word of god who create you and me and who brought the peace and who regulate all our life by rules . you believe what you hear about muslims but the rality is thet they are not resposible on the HOLLOCAUT nor the 20 million death of second war and the extermination of indians in your USA.
No Miramor I do not understand the coran as you say. I have never read it so I really can’t say anything positive or negative at this time. The only difference between you and I that I believe the Bible to be the word of God and you believe the coran is the word of God.
No the Muslims are not responsible for the hollocuast, and yes the Americans did a grave injustice th the American Indian. It seems to me that you get off of the subject and tend tp oint blame somewhere as not to face what the issue is now. You say the coran has brought you peace. I then ask you to answer this question. How long has the Muslim nations been waring against one another over the centuries. This is not peace. Also I would like to know how many prophecies is there in the coran and how many has mbeen fulfilled? I will exchange lists with you if you like. Oh, there are still Indians in the USA so they were not all extermiated. You say that the coranc gives you a set of rules to live by, so does the Bible, it is called the Torah 613 commandments. However when I break one I can find mercy, I try but I do fall. What do you do if you break any of the rules of the coran? Or do you keep them all and never break any? As hard as I try I fail, but I have a God that I can turn to for forviveness. Do you? The name of Jesus was given to Yashau by the Greeks, I rearely use the nmae Jesus. I would appreciate it deeply Miramor if you would answer the questions I pose to you. Please do not get off the subject matter but stick to the questions I have asked. They can be answered ver easily.
Pastor Lou
To Miramor,
Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events, in detail,many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter; no errors. (The remaining 500 or so reach into the future and may be seen unfolding as days go by.)
Pastor Lou
“jesus”,
You’re right, Hamas did not just decide to wake up one morning and start killing Israelis. Most of them were born to believe this way so this would never be a foreign idea to them. Unfortunately, they’ve been taught to follow the ways of Muhammad during the Medina period, where Muhammad gained followers by deception and lethal force. You should know this. I don’t doubt what you say that you’ve heard many Israelis pledge to kill people because of where they are from. Many Muslims say the same thing about Jews on the other hand. But there’s a difference, you don’t hear the Israeli government saying this. You just heard some Israeli civilians say this. On the other hand, you can always see Hamas, who leads the Palestinians, try to do what they say, which is wipe out Israel. You have to understand that Israel is a democracy where there is freedom to live peaceful and civilized lives where the government is lead by the people and there is no fear from it’s leaders. Hamas and other terrorist groups like it are dominated by extremist Muslim beliefs that encourage taking by force and there is no freedom of religion and people are forced to live under their rules in fear. Israel’s democracy is a spit in the face to Hamas worldview because of Muslim extremist ideology, and Hamas won’t stand for that. If Hamas could have it their way, they’d completely wipe out Israel, and take over the lives of the people so they can be feared and unfairly live to have things suit their own needs. I’m sorry, but a democracy has no need for terrorism, so you are terribly incorrect that Israel is a terrorist state. Once again, Israel is only trying to protect its people. Hamas is the culprit. Their core values support this.
“Jesus” and Miramor,
The roots of Jew-hatred among Muslim radicals predates 1948 and was NOT a response to Jewish violence. For an excellent study on 20th century background, you should both take the time to read Icon of Evil: Hitler’s Mufti and the Rise of Radical Islam, by Dalin and Rothman.
If facts are important to you — and I hope they are — and you should study out the facts. It will rock your world, but in the end, it will be worth it.
As for the WakeUpfromYourSlumber website — all that blood is on the hands of Hamas. Just ask Fatah leaders who have said the same thing. And what about all the pictures of Jewish children and families maimed and killed by Hamas? Do you care about that?
As I said in my article, it is hypocritical to protest the shedding of Arab blood while turning a blind eye to the shedding of Jewish blood.
ok Amjd
i m so sorry for the zionist without land and who finly found a desert inoccupated , i told you you are coming from another planet because it could be the only place inhabitant. if we suppose that they were lack of land the british or the usa or why not the german who were responsible of hollaucoust could give them small land and green land in USA the is lot big desert land so why not
to PASTOR
I undrestand you think like that because you never read the coran . to answer you , if i break some rules i have just to repent and try to not do it again , the islam is very simple not like many think . so i have to worship god direct and pray him without going throw another person and there is no hierarchy in our religion all the rules are in coran and Sunna . other think that christian didn t have is that ISSA “jesus“ raised up when he was almost 30 and never got married and never govern and never organised country or did pact with others or did comerce so he told by him self that some body else wil complete his religion . for Mohammed SWS he lives all steps familly life , economic life , he was persecutes, he found OUMA (state) and fight and made peace even with the jews so he is leader we can follow , it s why i said that the islam bring rules .
dont look for somebody else to sacrifice for your sin , just work good and be just and have good relationship with god by worshiping him and you will be in a paradise beside ISSA “jesus “ and the other prophets
if you want to know about the miraculous of coran it will be a big chapter you have to find out by making some searchs in the internet . who want to know the truth will find it
First, it is important to understand that not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. While a majority of Arabs are Muslims, there are many non-Muslim Arabs. Further, there are significantly more non-Arab Muslims (in areas such as Indonesia and Malaysia) than Arab Muslims.
Second, it is important to remember that not all Arabs hate Jews, that not all Muslims hate Jews, and that not all Jews hate Arabs and Muslims. We must be careful to avoid stereotyping people. However, generally speaking, Arabs and Muslims have a dislike and distrust for Jews and vice-versa.
If there is an explicit biblical explanation for this animosity, it goes all the way back to Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac. The Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael. With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman (Genesis 16:1-16) and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the promises to Abraham (Genesis 21:1-3), animosity between the two sons was almost inevitable. As a result of Ishmael mocking Isaac (Genesis 21:9), Sarah talked Abraham into sending Hagar and Ishmael away (Genesis 21:11-21). Likely this caused even more contempt in Ishmael’s heart toward Isaac. An angel even prophesied to Hagar that Ishmael would “live in hostility toward all his brothers” (Genesis 16:11-12).
The religion of Islam, of which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Qur’an contains conflicting instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers, but at another point it commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam. The Qur’an also introduces a conflict as to which son of Abraham was truly the son of promise. The Hebrew Scriptures say it was Isaac. The Qur’an says it was Ishmael. The Qur’an teaches that it was Ishmael that Abraham almost sacrificed to the Lord, not Isaac (in contradiction to Genesis chapter 22). This debate over who was the son of promise contributes to the hostility today.
However, the ancient root of bitterness between Isaac and Ishmael does not explain all of the hostility between Jews and Arabs today. In fact, for thousands of years of Middle Eastern history, Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace and indifference toward each other. The primary cause of the hostility has a modern origin. After World War II, when the United Nations gave a portion of the land of Israel to the Jewish people, the land was at that time primarily inhabited by Arabs (the Palestinians). Most Arabs protested against the nation of Israel occupying that land. Arab nations united and attacked Israel in an attempt to wipe them out of the land, but they were defeated by Israel. Ever since, there has been great hostility between Israel and its Arab neighbors. If you look on a map, Israel has one tiny little sliver of land and is surrounded by much larger Arab nations, i.e. Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Egypt. It is our viewpoint that, biblically speaking, Israel has a right to exist as a nation with its own land because God gave the land of Israel to the descendants of Jacob, grandson of Abraham. At the same time, we strongly believe that Israel should seek peace and display respect for its Arab neighbors. Psalms 122:6 declares, “Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: May those who love you be secure.”
In Messiah Yeshua He is Adonai !
Shirley
Miramor- to your question January 14, 2009, 4:47p.m. :
I did think about it.
The answer is because I was a baby in the spirit. I had accepted Jesus(english translation) as a little child. I believed as a little child in John 3:16 where it is written (in the King James version I had as a child) For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I just did not question or realize WHY He did this until a few years ago. Reading the “Old Covenant” explained the “New Covenant” to me.
As for the answer to your comment on works, I can never do any works that could pay for the Atonement He did for me, but I can try to the best of my ability, to follow His commandments, including “you shall love your neighbor as yourself”.
I am sorry that I did not explain myself where it could be understood.
With respect.
[...] Article HERE. [...]
miramor and jesus, what did you think of those websites i posted previously (post #114)?
Chris,
I do not know if they checked out the links or not but I did and I just want to say Thank You ! Thank You ! Thank You !
Shirley
miramor,
Even though Americans wrongly took over native indian American settlements in the early days, Americans still want them to live there now, and even make sure they have very own large amounts of land, restricted by anyone to take over. This was their identity and homeland and America wanted to make things right with them. No one in America wants them to move across the world for any reason, including their religion and culture. This is the same story with the Jews. They need to live in their land of identity because this is where they are from, not anywhere else in the world. The attempt to give them small parts of their homeland was just like the native indian story. The difference is that Americans want the indians in America, but the same feelings can not be said for Israel’s neighbors to Israel. If Israel’s neighboring states had a democracy, Jews could live peacefully there and no state of Israel would be needed. But Islamic ideology in that region is nothing like a democracy, and leadership occurs by Islamic fear and domination of its people, especially if you don’t share the same religious beliefs as they do. I hope this makes sense to you because this is very logical, and anyone from this planet should be able to understand. There are plenty of Muslims living in Israel that are citizens and they have the same rights as everyone else there. The same cannot be said for Israel’s neighboring states. No way will you find Jews being allowed to live in the neighboring states as citizens with equal rights. Living in a Muslim nation while practicing a different religion can mean death.
“Dr.”
Thank you for taking the time to look at the WakeUpfromYourSlumber website. If your conclusion that “that blood is on the hands of Hamas” suggests that some action of actions by individuals who are members of Hamas somehow required individuals in Israel to kill and maim innocent strangers (and stipulating such a requirement of violent response is entirely a false premise), it fails to follow through that same line of thought: i.e. that human actions have causes, and the violent attempts by members of Hamas (and truth be told, others in Palestine, just as Jewish settlers have engaged in violence with at best the tacit approval of the Israeli government and “not in the name” of the majority of Israeli citizens who publicly disapprove of it) must have a cause. It is apparently difficult for you to allow that the motivating force for violent actions by members of Hamas were impelled (and here I want to make clear, neither justified nor defensible, but as EXPLANABLE) by prior originary violence done to them. While neither celebrating nor defending violence by Hamas, I do not accept the idea that that violence started with them. To maintain otherwise would be to embrace Amjad’s sadly racist notion that “Most of them were born to believe this way.”
Unless you are unwilling to reject such racialized accounts of human behavior, you are going to have to trace the sources of violence farther back than “Hamas started it,” and indeed even farther back and more complexly than the Mufti you seem so fixated on. And unless you want to aid the perpetuation of such cycles of violence, you will need to stop embracing the idea that it is somehow all right for Israel to respond by killing innocent people with your suggestion also that Hamas is singularly responsible for the conflicts in Gaza, in Israel, in Palestine, in whatever you want to call this region where people of all faiths live, and most just want to live and let live–despite propaganda to the contrary.
A few additional points: I feel similarly heartbroken to look at images of any bloodied child or in fact grown-up, whatever their nationality (and I fear for my daughter’s Israeli cousins, who are entering military service starting next month). And I would not ask nor accept the words of Fatah leaders for much of anything, especially when it had to do with the government of their political rivals. That is a strange authority to invoke, even though I guess I understand your impulse–to try and use the voice of some Palestinians against another (again, to follow your own line of thinking, you might try looking at some of the dissenting voices in Israel for Israeli policy in the Occupied Territories).
And to Chris, I would try to be a bit more discerning about your sources for information and perspectives on the Middle East. Walid Shoebat has been peddling his absurdist “analysis” of the region with utter disregard for the lives and beliefs of the vast majority of people he attempts to portray. If you look into his personal history a bit, you might discover some of the motivating factors for his meaningless and bizarre generalizations, and bizarre conclusions.
Amjad
and what about Horishima and nakazaki?
when we want to lie we do it on person already died not in life .
i told you before that you come from another planet and for sure you haven t being here when this crimes happned so don t feel responsable to answer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“jesus”,
Why would I be racist against my own race? I simply disapprove of their misguided actions. And please don’t start with Hamas actions being explainable because of prior things that were wrongfully done to them. You will easily lose that battle if you want to point fingers and go down that road. My post #124 above is only a half attempt to explain away the problems. Please re-read it. In those days when Jews began immigrating back to their homeland, their Muslim neighbors were extremely crude to them even though Jews wanted to get along and live peacefully with them. A dominant Islamic area will not stand for variance of different religious cultures and this became clear at that time. The Muslims in that area couldn’t even get along with each other! So if you want to start tracing back the blame before Hamas, this is a good starting point for you. If you want additional background history, I would suggest going back to your Tawrat, and you can see that Quran got the story mixed up about Isaac and Ishmael. Tawrat clearly shows that God’s blessing of chosen people was to Isaac. This is shown in the earliest copies of the Tawrat that date back to 150 BC, over 700 years older than the Quran. In their hearts, many Muslims justify their actions by their mistaken rights of being Ishmael’s chosen descendents that was falsely written in the Quran. Even though the promise was to Isaac, God still blesses Ishmael’s descendents and He loves them, and the Jews would be happy to live in the land with the Muslims, but Quran teaches hatred of the Jews. I cannot help you if you fail to see this. In a sense, you are correct that it is not only Hamas fault what is happening in Gaza. The other fault belongs to Iran and possibly Syria who encourage Hamas to do this and supply them with weapons. Just leave them alone and everything will stop. We all want the killings to stop! Israel has a right to defend itself. It is a democracy, not a terrorist state as you wrongly think. They can’t allow Hamas to be firing weapons in the country all of the time and threatening lives and spreading constant fear to the people. You don’t see other democatic nations fighting each other now. The problem is the extremist Muslim beliefs trying to forcefully take over other areas, which is apparent what Muhammad tought in Medina in the later part of his life. He was definitely wrong at this time of his life. Israel does not intentionally target innocent lives. If you believe this, you are believing a lie.
miramor,
Thanks for the personal attacks, I appreciate it. It is not my intent to make you feel attacked if that is what you feel I am doing. I don’t sense a peace-loving tone coming from you, so I must be hitting a nerve with you. Your comparisons with Hiroshima and Nagasaki have no relevance to this topic whatsoever and I am beginning to doubt your willingness to be open to truth. Why don’t you read the background of World War II before you try to throw out ridiculous examples for your satisfactory sake of argument. Japan and America are close friends these days, so I don’t what the big deal is for you. Did you even know that Japan was trying to help Germany take over the world in those days?
All,
From http://voiceofrevolution.askdrbrown.org/commenting/ :
Marcus French
Editor: Voice of Revolution
Amjad,
You said :
“There are plenty of Muslims living in Israel that are citizens and they have the same rights as everyone else there. The same cannot be said for Israel’s neighboring states. No way will you find Jews being allowed to live in the neighboring states as citizens with equal rights. Living in a Muslim nation while practicing a different religion can mean death.”
Are you dreaming and believing your dreams or you lie and believe yours lies or you just don’t understand.
First of all the Arabs living in Israel are only the Arabs that Israelis couldn’t throw from their houses when they were destroying and taking by force everything and the rest of those who they didn’t or couldn’t kill.
Than where were the majority of Jews when they were persecuted and killed by Christians in Europe? Weren’t they in Islamic countries? living and being respected and loved without any problem. more than this they were protected from the killings of Hitler when he asked Islamic countries to give them to him. They have been also governing with the Muslim emirs and kings and they are in governements till now.
Till now Amjad Jews are living respected protected and loved in Islamic countries and they are even denunciating the barbarities of Zionists of Israel in public medias and making prays for the Palestinians.
And they are not people like you with their ignorance and hatred or Zionists with their acts who will change this relationship.
i don t care about your thanks, because it seems the same thanks you do for israel to exterminate the children and women and for americans to exterminate the native americans thet you are verry happy for them because the christian after exterminate them gave them peace of land.
about democracy in israel , i think it s agood exemple after they forbiden the arab who live in israel to participate to the next elections.
for the areb who kill the jews and christians i remind you that in every arabic country it does exist christians and jews and untill now in my country we have jews who have the same right and who are respected even what happen in israel they have there sinagoge so we muslem we don t mix things
and amjad is arabic name i m wondring how are you still in life if what you are saying is true.
about the christianity and judaisme it is the coran who tell us to espect them ,
it s why i m still telling you that i m confusing about the planet from where you did come
sorry again . you don t feel that i m attacked but i m crying for this lifes of civilians killed by this war machine and we are still debating phylosophy and religion
to inform you those children didn t decide yet to be muslims , christians or jews or boudies.
stopping acting like we are waching soccer play from different side
start thinking like just humans
Sorry for the confusion bozart. There is some truth to what you say. I was referring to the extremist areas. I apologize for not making that clear. And to further clarify, I do not hate anyone. I love my Muslim brothers and sisters, so please don’t misunderstand that. I believe a large portion of them are misguided though. I think you are misguided to say that Arabs still living in Israel are only there because they couldn’t be overthrown…that would be undemocratic.
miramor,
I’m not sure you know this, but “exterminate” means that something no longer exists. Native Americas still exist so they were not exterminated by Americans as you thought. Americans were wrong what they did to them and they realize that now. From what I have learned, American does not equal Christian. The Christians I know would never do something like this and they admit those Americans who called themselves “Christian” during that time were not true Christians. I have read Injil and it is true that the Americans who did this were not true Christians, just like other ”Christians” who murdered people in the past were not true Christians. Just like it is wrong for them to do this, it is wrong for Hamas to do this to it’s people, and it is wrong for Iran to support Hamas to indirectly kill its own people in attempt to harm Israel. Israel is not targeting the innocent people. I’m not saying that Israel has never done anything wrong, but in this case, Hamas is the true problem. And for the record, Arabic citizens in Israel do vote just like anyone else there. You have to be a citizen to do this just like any typical democracy.
Amjad,
I was just saying the reality and posted it to let the others with us in this room who never been in Islamic country and just fantasy on how Muslims are with what they see and hear from medias (hating Americans Jews Europeans Humanity and life in general) know a part of the reality is that Muslims love christians Americans Europeans Jews and all the humanity more than any christian can claim.
And if you’re serious by saying you love your Muslim brothers and sisters so don’t hide the realities from now and ever and spread hatred because if you you know the realities not obligatory all the others know. Don’t play the game of the occidental medias who just makes oil on fire.
I agree with you bozart. Many of my Muslim brothers and sisters have great love for other people of other religions. Yes, there are false stereotypes caused by the media. There are some Americans who automatically see Muslims as terrorist because of media, and there are some Muslims from other countries who automatically see Christians as murderers because of the history events such as the Crusades. It is wrong to have this view unless they actually met the people. I don’t condemn my Muslim family as a whole, only groups like Hamas and figures like Mamoud Ahmadinejad.
Amjad,
Out of curiosity, are you Muslim?
Amljad,
Thank you for your testimony and your new sincerity. For now and ever we’ll be able to discuss not by condemning each other faith.
And for those who are telling to Muslims that they are in darkness I say that this is exactly how the Muslims look to the Christian and Jewish faith but don’t tell it to you. So my point of view is to never tell such bad description to anyone who has different faith and discuss if we want to with an open mind, unless a person asks exactly how your religion looks to mine at that moment you can say what you know but very politely.
Marcus,
By asking Amjad this question means that you’re far from knowing who and how are Muslims.
Bozart,
Not sure what you mean be “how are Muslims”, but as far as knowing “who are Muslims”, how exactly am I supposed to tell who Muslims are?
Indeed you are right Amjad. The Arabs living in Israel today are the Arabs who enjoy the more freedom than any other Arabs in the middle east. The Arabs of Israel can go outside and spit on the image of Prime Minister, speak against him, and go home for dinner with no fear of reprisal. (Try that in Syria or Persian Iran) That is one reason that I know the propaganda that Bozart is peddling is rubbish.
“First of all the Arabs living in Israel are only the Arabs that Israelis couldn’t throw from their houses when they were destroying and taking by force everything and the rest of those who they didn’t or couldn’t kill”
Read the Israeli declaration of Independence where David Ben Gurion implored Arabs to stay and help us build the country, guaranteeing them freedom. Most of the Arabs were not driven out, but fled because:
A) wealthy Arabs were afraid of the war.
B) other Arabs fled when they were implored to leave and told by Arab nations that after Israel was destroyed, they could come back to a stronger position.
C) exaggerated and false claims of Jewish brutality caused many to flee
After the 6 Day war we did not hesitate to guarantee freedom of worship for Muslims when we could have simply blown up the Mosques on the Temple Mount. From 48-67 the Jordanians destroyed every Jewish synagogue or monument in contrast.
Bozart, the next time you claim the Jews murdered and drove out Arabs in 47-48, quote a source. You will be hard pressed to find any original newspaper report from that time to support your claim.
Thank you bozart. I can see where you are coming from now.
Marcus, yes I am Muslim, but not the type some might think. Thank you for posting the “Who is Hamas?” news article above. It stresses exactly my point. I hope people on here have had a chance to read it. For others who are interested, here is a quick link: http://voiceofrevolution.askdrbrown.org/2009/01/14/who-is-hamas/
I would suggest to Amjad that it is far from a novel concept that someone can be racist even about his own race (you might have heard the phrase “self-hating Jew” before), the point being that to generalize about a group of people purportedly “born” into a certain behavior or attitude–even if that generalization is meant to be positive–is the essence of racism. And in his case, I don’t think he was intending something positive in his statement that “Most of them were born to believe this way”. Nonetheless, I was happy to see “Amjad” retract some of his more extreme comments regarding Muslims, though I have no idea what “democracy” means to him since Israel clearly does not have equal rights for the individuals it subjects its rules unequally to–the right to marry, own property, equal access to public resources, in addition to the question of voting and the right to demonstrate. And the suggestion that a “democracy” doesn’t have to engage in terrorism is not only simplistic, but overlooks the fact that violent brutalities towards others are traceable to ALL types of political systems, and that is true of even the best examples of “democracy” (of which, again, Israel is not a very good example, despite his tautology claiming any Arab living in Israel somehow indicates that the government and other citizens of Israel have always treated them fairly BECAUSE it would be undemocratic to do so).
I m still thinking that Amjad is coming from another planet where never lived pytagor .
so i will tell you again i respect all people even those coming from other planet except those who havn t any respect to the life to the children .
to bozart , your good intention will not drive amjad and dr brown and the others to recognise what israel is doing is the barbary and the history will judge them . so thank you bozart i rcognise on you a wise man .
and for jesus for me you reflect this name , i would like to tell you thank you for trying to show the goodness
this is for Ron (based on IDF and Ben-Gurion archive materials):
166-167 “Clear traces of an expulsion policy on both national and local levels with respect to certain key districts and localities and a general ‘atmosphere of transfer’ are detectable in statements made by Zionist officials and officers. They are discernable, too, in the actions of Haganah units around the country…in any event, a policy of clearing out Arab communities sitting astride or near vital routes and along some borders was instituted. Orders went out from HGS to the relevant units to drive out and, if necessary, expel the remaining communities along the Tel Aviv-Haifa axis, the Jenin-Haifa road…and along the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv road.”
And this: “As one IDF intelligence officer coyly put it: ‘There is an opinion that we must step up the eviction of Arabs from the territory of the State of Israel as it renders Arab administrative functioning far more difficult and, as well, the morale of the population declines with each new wave of refugees.’”
This is from an IDF Memo GS/Intelligence to ‘Conrad’, ‘Summary of Information from the Northern Front, 3 June 1948. IDFA 922\75\\1044. (Israeli Defence Force Archive)
And 168: “But not only the Haganah was empowered to decide on the eviction of Arab villagers. On 13 April HGS informed the brigades that the Committee for Arab Property, chaired by Machnes, was ‘empowered to decide…regarding the movement of Arabs in the Jewish area and…the eviction [pinui] of Arab villages not in battle.’ [HGS to brigades, 13 Apr. 1948, IDFA 922\75\\1219]. Ben-Gurion rubber-stamped this authorization three weeks later…”
‘Summary of a Meeting with “Amitai,” 6 May 11948 DBGA (Ben Gurion Archive)
And 171: “But ultimately, the atmosphere of transfer, as we shall see, prevailed though April-June: Most communities attacked were evacuated and where no spontaneous evacuation occurred, communities more often than not were expelled. Throughout, Arabs who had fled were prevented from returning to their homes. In some areas, villages that surrendered were disarmed—and then expelled; in others, Haganah (and IZL and LHI) units refused to accept surrender, triggering departure.”
“In general, Haganah operational orders for attacks on towns did not call for the expulsion or eviction of the civilian population. But from early April [1948], operational orders fro attacks on villages and clusters of villages more often than not called for the destruction of villages and, implicitly or explicitly, expulsion…By and large, when it came to ejecting Arab communities, Haganah commanders exercised greater independence and forcefulness in the countryside than in the towns.”
pages 166-168 from the Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited, quotes taken from IDF archives and Ben Gurion papers.
To Miramor who posted these lines: Miramor you keep mentioning about people coming from another planet, you continually harp on all the bloodshed that Christians and Jews have done. I do believe most of your sentiments arise from hatred. I would like to receive some historical facts on your statements. Do you ever read history, or only what you think and feel history is. Please read this follwing historical article.
1,400 Years of Christian/Islamic Struggle: An Analysis
By Richard C. Csaplar, Jr.
Guest Columnist
CBN.com – I was very disappointed to see that U.S. News would publish a clearly false article, adopting the world’s clearly false, politically correct (PC) view of the place of the Crusades in history. What makes it even worse, the article hides its views under the additional headline falsehood, “The Truth About the Epic Clash Between Christianity and Islam.”
Let me explain.
The opening heading states, “During the Crusades, East and West first met.” This is just totally in error, as any person with the slightest knowledge of history well knows. East and West had been fighting for at least 1,500 years before the first Crusade.
To give just a few examples — the Persians invaded Europe in an attempt to conquer the Greeks in the fifth century B.C. The Greek, Alexander the Great, attempted to conquer all of Asia, as far as India, in the fourth century B.C. Both the Persians of the east and the Greeks of the west set up colonial empires founded upon bloody military conquest. The Romans established by bloody military conquest colonies in Mesopotamia, northwestern Arabia, and Assyria in the second century A.D.
A different type of bloody conquest occurred through the movement of whole tribal groups between the east and the west. Again, just to name a few, the Huns, the Goths, and the Avars came from as far away as western Asia, central Asia, and China respectively in the fifth through the seventh centuries A.D. Indeed, the Avars from northern China and Mongolia were besieging Constantinople in 626 A.D., at the very moment Mohammed was a merchant in Arabia. Indeed, the Avars, by this siege, were one of the forces that weakened the Byzantines (there were many other, perhaps more important, forces) to the extent that most of the Byzantine mid-eastern empire fell relatively easily to the Muslims.
But let’s give the writer the benefit of the doubt and say that the author meant that “During the Crusades, Islam and Christianity first met.” This, of course, is also totally false.
Let us review the Muslim conquest. In 624, Mohammed led a raid for booty and plunder against a Meccan caravan, killing 70 Meccans for mere material gain. Between 630 A.D. and the death of Mohammed in 632 A.D., Muslims — on at least one occasion led by Mohammed — had conquered the bulk of western Arabia and southern Palestine through approximately a dozen separate invasions and bloody conquests. These conquests were in large part “Holy wars,” putting the lie to another statement in the U.S. News article that proclaimed the Crusades “The First Holy War,” as if the Christians had invented the concept of a holy war. After Mohammed’s death in 632, the new Muslim caliph, Abu Bakr, launched Islam into almost 1,500 years of continual imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of others through invasion and war, a role Islam continues to this very day.
You will note the string of adjectives and may have some objection to my using them. They are used because they are the absolute truth. Anyone denying them is a victim of PC thinking, ignorant of history, or lying to protect Islam. Let us take each word separately before we proceed further in our true history of the relationship between the Christian west and the Islamic east.
Imperialistic
The Muslim wars of imperialist conquest have been launched for almost 1,500 years against hundreds of nations, over millions of square miles (significantly larger than the British Empire at its peak). The lust for Muslim imperialist conquest stretched from southern France to the Philippines, from Austria to Nigeria, and from central Asia to New Guinea. This is the classic definition of imperialism — “the policy and practice of seeking to dominate the economic and political affairs of weaker countries.”
Colonialist
The Muslim goal was to have a central government, first at Damascus, and then at Baghdad — later at Cairo, Istanbul, or other imperial centers. The local governors, judges, and other rulers were appointed by the central imperial authorities for far off colonies. Islamic law was introduced as the senior law, whether or not wanted by the local people. Arabic was introduced as the rulers’ language, and the local language frequently disappeared. Two classes of residents were established. The native residents paid a tax that their colonialist rulers did not have to pay.
Although the law differed in different places, the following are examples of colonialist laws to which colonized Christians and Jews were made subject to over the years:
§ Christians and Jews could not bear arms — Muslims could;
§ Christians and Jews could not ride horses — Muslims could;
§ Christians and Jews had to get permission to build — Muslims did not;
§ Christians and Jews had to pay certain taxes which Muslims did not;
§ Christians could not proselytize — Muslims could;
§ Christians and Jews had to bow to their Muslim masters when they paid their taxes; and
§ Christians and Jews had to live under the law set forth in the Koran, not under either their own religious or secular law.
In each case, these laws allowed the local conquered people less freedom than was allowed the conquering colonialist rulers. Even non-Arab Muslim inhabitants of the conquered lands became second class citizens behind the ruling Arabs. This is the classic definition of colonialist — “a group of people who settle in a distant territory from the state having jurisdiction or control over it and who remain under the political jurisdiction of their native land.”
We will talk about “bloody” as we proceed. Because the U.S. News article related only to the Christian west against the Muslim east, except in this paragraph I will not describe the almost 1,500 years of Muslim imperialistic, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of others through invasion and war to the east of Arabia in Iraq, Persia, and much further eastward, which continues to this day.
In any event, because it was the closest geographically, Palestine was the first Western non-Arab area invaded in the Muslim imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of others. At the time, Palestine was under the rule of the so-called Eastern Roman Empire, ruled from Istanbul by Greek speaking people, and was Eastern Orthodox Catholic. The Eastern Orthodox rule was despotic and the Eastern Roman Empire was in serious decline. The Eastern Orthodox rulers were despots, and in Palestine had subjugated the large population of local Jews and Monophysite Christians. Because the Orthodox were imperialist, colonialist, and bloody, and majored in religious persecution to boot, the Muslim imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of Palestine, and then Egypt, was made easier. Because of Orthodox weakness and the relative speed of the conquest of Palestine and Israel, I have often seen this Muslim, imperialist, colonialist bloody conquest described by Muslim and PC writers as “peaceful” or “bloodless.” This statement is simply not true.
The Muslim imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of Palestine began with a battle, the August 20, 636, battle of Yarmk (it is believed that 75,000 soldiers took part — hardly bloodless). With the help of the local Jews who welcomed the Muslims as liberators, the Muslims had subjugated the remainder of Palestine but had not been able to capture Jerusalem. Beginning in July 637, the Muslims began a siege of Jerusalem which lasted for five (hardly bloodless) months before Jerusalem fell in February 638. Arabs did not sack the city, and the Arab soldiers were apparently kept in tight control by their leaders. No destruction was permitted. This was indeed a triumph of civilized control, if imperialism, colonization, and bloody conquest can ever be said to be “civilized.” It was at this conquest that many significant hallmarks of Muslim colonialism began. The conquered Christian and Jewish people were made to pay a tribute to the colonialist Muslims. In addition, Baghdad used the imperialist, colonialist, bloody wars of conquest throughout the life of its empire to provide the Caliphate with a steady stream of slaves, many of whom were made eunuchs.
The Muslim conquest of (Christian) North Africa went relatively easily until the native peoples of North Africa (most importantly the Berbers) were encountered west of Egypt. The North African people fought so strongly against the Muslims that the Muslim imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest in the west was brought to an almost complete stop between Tripoli and Carthage for more than a quarter century. The Muslims broke through in a series of bloody battles followed by bloody (revenge) massacres of the Muslim’s (largely Christian) opponents. This Muslim imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest continued through North Africa and through what is now Spain, Portugal, and southern France, until they were stopped at the battle of Poiters (hardly bloodless) in the middle of France.
I believe that if I had the time, I could show that the Muslims, in their western imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquests, killed two to three times as many Christians as the Christians killed Muslims in all of the Crusades combined.
But let us return to Jerusalem.
Jerusalem
The U.S. News article states that after Saladin conquered Jerusalem, “the victorious Saladin forbade acts of vengeance. There were no more deaths, no violence.” True, as far as it goes. The article goes on to say, “most Muslims [will] tell you about Saladin and his generosity in the face of Christian aggression and hatred.” Thus, the PC people and the Muslims ignore 450 years of prior Muslim aggression and approach the Crusades as being Christian or Western aggression against Islam, beginning out of the blue, without any prior history. Let us go back to the Muslim colonialist occupation of Jerusalem.
When we left our truthful history of Jerusalem, the Muslims, headquartered in Arabia, had just captured Jerusalem. For approximately 100 years, chiefly under the Umayyads, Jerusalem prospered under Muslim rule. Under the succeeding Abbasids, Jerusalem began to decline — beginning at approximately 725 A.D. The occasion, among other things, was the decline of the central Muslim government, the breaking away from Arabia of far-flung provinces, the growth of warlike revolutionary groups, the growth of extremist Muslim sects, and, perhaps most important, the decision (relatively new) that Muslims had an obligation to convert all Christians and Jews (and “other pagans”) to Islam. Thereafter, the true colonial nature of Jerusalem became more apparent. The Abbasids drained wealth from Jerusalem to Baghdad for the benefit of the caliphs, and Jerusalem declined economically. The language of the government became Arabic, and forcible conversion to Islam became the Muslim policy.
In approximately 750, the Caliph destroyed the walls of Jerusalem, leaving it defenseless (they were later rebuilt, in time to defend against the Crusaders). The history of the following three hundred years is too complex and too tangled to describe in a single paragraph. Jerusalem and its Christian and Jewish majority suffered greatly during alternating periods of peace and war. Among the happenings were repeated Muslim destruction of the countryside of Israel (970-983, and 1024-1077) of Jerusalem; the wholesale destruction by the Muslims of Christian churches — sometimes at the direct order of the Caliph, as in 1003, and sometimes by Muslim mobs; the total destruction of Jerusalem by the Caliph of Cairo in the early 1020s; building small mosques on the top of Christian churches; enforcing the Muslim laws limiting the height of Christian churches; attacking and robbing Christian pilgrims from Europe; attacking Christian processions in the streets of Jerusalem; etc.
Why the change after nearly 100 years of mostly peaceful Muslim rule? From what I read, there is a general view among the historians that the caliphs had begun to add a religious importance to their conquests, setting conversion to Islam as an important priority; their later caliphs had no first-hand remembrance of Mohammed; the vast distances of the empire led to independent rulers being established in Spain, North Africa, Cairo, Asia Minor, etc.; and the instability of the caliphates and resulting civil wars.
The point about conversion to Islam I find particularly interesting. Many historians believe that the first one hundred years of Muslim conquest were imperialist and colonialist only with little significant forced conversion content. With respect to Jerusalem, there was a particular problem in the fact that generally the Christians and their churches (and to a lesser degree, the Jews) were significantly wealthier than the Muslims. This was largely because beginning in the early 800s with Charlemaigne, Europe adopted a sort of prototype “foreign aid” program for the churches located at the holy places in Jerusalem, where, to the embarrassment of the Muslims, Christian churches and monasteries outshone their Muslim rivals. Many of these churches and monasteries were run by western religious orders reporting directly to Rome under western leaders appointed by Rome (more were subject to Constantinople). Literally thousands of European Christian pilgrims made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem from such places as Germany, France, and Hungary (particularly in the years 1000, 1033, 1064, and 1099). Finally, Muslim rulers and European rulers frequently sought to enter into treaties of support with each other. As a result, Christian churches became the target of Muslims when enemies of those with whom there were European ties were victorious in a civil war. From time to time, Christian churches were rebuilt with Muslim funds when pro-western rulers came to power.
So much for the PC, U.S. News, Muslim outright lie that begins with the statement, “During the Crusades, East and West first met,” and that later in the article called the Crusades, “the first major clash between Islam and Western Christendom.” What about the long, prior conquest by Islam of Spain and Portugal? What about the battle of Portiers?
The following is just an aside, which I cannot prove, but I have noticed that PC and Muslim statements frequently cut off history when it is not in their favor. Thus, the article gives credence to the widespread belief in Islam that east-west history began with the Crusades. See also as an example of this tendency to begin history where it is convenient, today’s Muslim description of the current Israeli occupation of the West Bank without mentioning the fact that the current occupation was caused by the widespread cold-blooded murder of Israeli civilians by Muslims.
But let us move on to the Crusades themselves.
The Crusades
First, a word about my personal view of the Crusades. I believe that the murderous and pillaging acts of the Crusaders when they entered Jerusalem were barbaric, unchristian, and evil. This is particularly so as those barbaric, unchristian, and evil acts were carried on in the name of a religion of peace, love, and forgiveness. I believe that the vast bulk of thinking Christians agree with me. I cite as evidence the large numbers of Christians who have recently taken long pilgrimages in the footsteps of the Crusaders, repenting for the Crusader’s acts, seeking for forgiveness, and giving penance for the Crusader’s barbaric, unchristian, and evil acts.
A question occurs to me here. How many Muslim groups have taken long pilgrimages in the footsteps of the Muslim conquest repenting, seeking for forgiveness, and giving penance for the Muslims imperialist, colonialist, and bloody conquest of Palestine, Egypt, Syria, North Africa, and Spain? This is particularly important as the U.S. News article claims, “For [Muslims] imperialism is a dirty word” Where is Muslim repentance for its imperialism, geographically the largest in all of history, which permits Muslims to call Western imperialism a dirty word?
Let us rewrite the beginning of the U.S. News article as follows: “In 1095, after suffering from the murderous invasions of Muslim conquerors who killed tens of thousands of Christians through four-and-one-half centuries of Muslim imperialist, colonialist conquest, made slaves and eunuchs of Christians for the pleasure of the caliphs, burned down or sacked the holiest churches in Christendom, robbed and killed thousands of Christians on holy pilgrimage, brutally sacked and pillaged Jerusalem, and pillaged the countryside of Israel, western Europe, under the leadership of the Pope, decided to free the people of the Holy Land from their brutal masters and reclaim Christianity’s holiest places for free Christian worship.”
Now, I fully realize that the previous paragraph is one-sided, that the six centuries of Muslim colonial, imperialist occupation were more complex than are shown in the previous paragraphs, and that the Christians were not always blameless, little babes. However, the previous paragraph has the benefit of not being an outright lie, which is more than I can say for the U.S. News article.
To beat the dog one more time, you may have noted that I stated above that Muslim imperialism has continued until the present. Muslim imperialism has continued without any let-up from ten years before Mohammed’s death until today.
Consider the Ottoman invasion of Christian Eastern Europe in which the Ottoman Empire invaded the west and conquered and colonized Greece, all of the Balkans, Romania, Bessarabia, and Hungary, and was stopped only at the outskirts of Vienna in 1529. Consider also the Muhgal conquest of Northern India in the early 1600s. But today? Of course! In the 20th century alone:
1. Muslim Turkey has expelled approximately 1,500,000 Greeks from its empire in the east and replaced them with Turks. They have massacred approximately 2 million Armenians and replaced them with Turks in the west.
2. Muslim Turkey has invaded and occupied northern Cyprus, displacing the Greeks living there.
3. Muslim northern Sudan has conquered much of southern Sudan, literally enslaving its Christian and pagan population.
4. Indonesian imperialism has occupied all of non-Islamic western New Guinea and incorporated into Indonesia.
5. Muslim Indonesia has invaded and conquered Christian East Timor with horrible loss of life.
6. This very day, Muslim Indonesia is attempting to destroy Christianity in what used to be called the Celebes.
7. A half-dozen Arab countries have fought two to four wars (depending how you count) in an attempt to destroy Israel and occupy its territory, and is currently continuing the attempt this very day with the publicly voted consent of 55 of the world’s 57 Islamic nations.
8. For no good reason, Muslim Libya has blown up western aircraft, killing many civilians.
9. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist war of aggression, invaded and occupied Muslim Kuwait.
10. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist act of aggression, invaded Muslim Iran with a resulting (some estimates say) death of 2 million people.
11. Muslim Albania, this very minute, is attempting to enlarge its borders at Christian Macedonia’s expense.
12. Muslim Northern Nigeria has been (and is currently) an aggressor against the Christian south.
13. Muslims expelled approximately 800,000 Jews from their homelands between 1947 and 1955.
14. During Jordan’s occupation of the West Bank, the kingdom undertook an unsuccessful attempt to make Jerusalem a Muslim city by forcing out approximately 10,000 Christian inhabitants.
Yes, I know that the reverse has been true. For example, Christian Serbia entered and massacred Bosnian Muslims. The western response was instructive. The west sent troops to protect the Muslims. Serbia gave up its leader to be tried for the crime by an international panel. Will Indonesia do the same with respect to Timor? Or Sudan with respect to southern Sudan?
Question: What is the title of the shortest book in the world? Answer: “The list of Muslim nations who have risked the lives of their soldiers to protect (as with the U.S. protection of Muslims in Kuwait) Christian or Jewish citizens from Muslim imperialism.”
Yes, I also know that in the 20th century the west fought two of the bloodiest wars in history. But in the past more than 55 years, the west has developed methods that have led to peace among the west, and all but totally ended western imperialism and colonialism. With former colonies having a large majority in the UN, and the example of the west before it, Islam has continued its imperialist, colonial, bloody wars unabated.
One final point. Muslims base their claim to the city of Jerusalem upon the belief that Jerusalem has been a Muslim city for centuries. It may be that Muslims were never a majority in Jerusalem. We cannot prove this for all time periods, but we know that Muslims were a minority in the first several centuries after the Muslim imperialist conquest and during the century of Christian occupation during the Crusades. And we know that in the Middle Ages, Jerusalem was not considered important to the Muslims, but it was to the Christians and Jews. The Muslims made cities other than Jerusalem the capital of their Palestinian colony. Many Caliphs never even visited Jerusalem. Therefore, there was a steady stream of Jewish and Christian (but not Muslim) immigrants into Jerusalem throughout the Middle Ages, including a major immigration of Karaite Jews in the late eighth and early ninth centuries, and a steady stream of Armenians for hundreds of years, until there were so many Armenians that an Armenian Quarter was established in Jerusalem. Finally, we know that for at least more than the last 160 years, Muslims were a clear minority in Jerusalem. The Muslim Ottomans, and then the British and Israelis, kept careful census record showing the following percentages of Muslim population in Jerusalem:
1844 — 33%
1896 — 19%
1910 — 13%
1922 — 22%
1931 — 22%
1948 — 24%
1967 — 21%
1972 — 23%
1992 — 25%
Just some facts Miramor, you will probably come up with yet anoher lame reply aas usual. If not I will be totally surprised. Also I asked you several days ago to tell me how many prophecies were in the coran and how many have ben fulfilled. I do see you chose not to answer it, so I will ask it again. All who have read the former post and this one are waiting for an answer Miramor
“jesus”,
By “most of them”, I was referring to extremist Muslims. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. And with regards to Arabs living in Israel, I will refer you to Ron Cantor’s most current post above. You can take that up with him. I don’t know what you say to be true since I have Arabic Israeli friends who have gotten married and own land with no partiality. Also, I’m not sure how you’re relating democracy to terrorism. Can you give me some historical examples? Violent brutalities doesn’t necessarily mean terrorism. Violent brutalities can occur as a result of self defense.
Well miramor, if you have no respect for people that kill little children, I think we finally agree on something. I’m glad to know that you are on the side of Israel and are upset with Hamas and Iran. You must have read that article I suggested. Good job man!
Thank you Miramore for all the good things that you say, I can see that you’re a very kind and intelligent man. I agree with you there are some people here who have never been with Muslims and not ready to change anything from their hatred and stereotypes.
Ron,
I’m not doing any propaganda here, I don’t need to. It’s not my job and I don’t care about what you think or what you feel. I’m not responsible for those who keep having hatred in their heart and savor it. I was talking about historical realities when I talked about Jews and Muslims everyone can go and check by himself from neutral historians.
And if you say that what I said about history of Israelis cruelties with the Arabs living with them was incorrect than I’ll give you some links of Europeans neutral historians retracing all the story in 4 short films with a huge quantitie of photos and all the explanations that I ask you to take time to see it to understand if you want. They are very interesting.
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1st part
http://www.dailymotion.com/myzemzem/video/xm7cl_palestine-histoire-dune-terre-p-14_news
2nd part
http://www.dailymotion.com/myzemzem/video/xm81l_palestine-histoire-dune-terre-p-24_news
3rd part
http://www.dailymotion.com/myzemzem/video/xmcbc_palestine-histoire-dune-terre-p-34_news
4th part
http://www.dailymotion.com/myzemzem/video/xmdoc_palestine-histoire-dune-terre-p-44_news
And this last one is to know about what the Arabs you talk about are suffering everyday in your demacratic Israel
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http://www.adc.org/flash/palestine/files/eslides.swf
Amjad,
Tell me where do you think I come from
pastor
bringing the view of richard is goog it s not only the source of history so even if give you my historical source you will not agree because the history is writen regarding to each side we are so i will not spending time on that . but no one can refut the different crimes of the chirch and the killing of jesus by jews and hollocaust and horishima and nakazaki and now GAZA and racism in usa 40 years brfore with blacks and in sud africa and others obvious things so obvious that we havn t to disagree about it
i can start first by the prophecy in the old testament whi is very clear the name of ahmed our prophet who was translated differently , and other verset showing the coming of mohamed our prophet and prophecy in the bible when is told that some one will come and achieve my saying.
but to speak about the coran it s need more than coment to study it , just to tell you the way that is written is compleetly different to the way is written new testament who seem(bible) to be like we write stories .
if you are realy looking for the reach te truth , i can give you some website and some document by email and for sure if you have the ogic of pytagor you can convert to islam easily
amjad
now i m sure you are coming from another solar system .
i told “except“
if you want that i send you some pictures of cruauty of israel i will do it but before you must have healthy heart because it s choking
miramor,
You are starting to make me laugh. Perhaps I am from another solar system and I just didn’t know it. I’ll have to look into that since you are so curious to know. :) I have seen lots of pictures you refer to, just like “jesus” showed everyone on here, and it is very choking as you say. To be fair, have you ever seen what the Jews looked like at Auschwitz during the Holocaust? And besides, the disturbing pictures that are happening at Gaza is due to Hamas as I have said over and over. I saw what you wrote to “pastor” above, and it is apparent that your facts are not correct. I don’t say this to be cruel to you, but this is the truth. There is no Muslim prophet mentioned in the Bible. Those prophecies you refer to are talking about Jesus. Please read the Injil and you will see this. I want to also say that just because people disagee with you on this matter at Gaza or disagree with your beliefs period doesn’t mean they are racist towards you. I think you are probably a good person at heart. So because discussions may get heated or someone tends to side with Israel doesn’t mean they are your enemy. If you ever needed help with something or needed a place to stay I would gladly offer you a place at my home, although you may not like it since it’s cold here on Pluto. :) We’re here to have civilized discussions, not to express hatred, which is an evil thing to do.
bozart,
I can’t think where you are from. Maybe Morocco?
Well said Amjad!
I’m intrigued as to what you mean when you say that you are a “Muslim, but not the type some might think”. Would you care to elaborate?
jesus,
can you explain what you think is absurd or bizarre about walid shoebat realizing that terrorism is wrong so he decided not to be a terrorist anymore? are you sure you listened to how he has changed for the better? also, what did you think about the answering-islam link i sent? i’d be curious to hear what miramor thinks of these websites also. thanks.
Friends here,
As I said before don’t push people to tell you bad things about your faith. If you think that you will impress Muslims with web sites or comments like those or whatever, you are wrong and far from knowing how the Muslims think and what is their faith.
They have the answer of everything in The Holly Quran what has been said what is saying now and what will be said because simply those are The Only Holly Words Of God THAT ARE STILL CONSERVED AS THEY WERE GIVEN TO THE LAST PROPHET. And everything you say against teachings of Quran and teachings of The Prophet Muslims look at them like wrong interpretations far from the reality or misunderstanding.
Yes you will find those who are impressed with the occidental way of live and will tell you anything you want to hear to let you give them money, help them in their life or let them live in your occidental countries but those are a very small minority who don’t care about any religion they are just following money or success or trying to have simply better way of life.
And for the thounsands of Christians who convert to Islam they don’t look for anything like this because first Muslims don’t have what to give them and Muslims don’t need someone who lies about his faith in the opposite they condemn this attitude. At the end if someone becomes Muslim he will not share Paradise with the others, it will be for him and just for him.
Amjad,
what makes you think I’m probably from Morocco?
Did you see my links?
AMJAD
AS YOU see even you are coming from other country you are welcom on the earth , and may be in your planet you can justify bad crimes by anther crimes like hollocaust but here it s not the case here it just the psychopat who do it.
you told yur are muslim , it s a prouf that you are a big liar and hypocrit and no religion accept lie or hypochresy soi think you are belonging to another religion coming from your planet.
i dont know how long you have been on earth but it seems you need more timr to learn about humanity. and more than more to understand bible prophecy and more and more to understand CORAN may be there is no translation on the language of your planet
enjoy the hollywood in gaza that the zionist are using to realise in studio in USA
jesus,
This is also for bozart and miramor. I’d also like to hear what you think about this clip. When you open this, scroll down and click on the video for Faisal’s story. https://www.covenantoflife.org/col/our-story Feel free to explore this site and read more interesting things on it.
Bozart,
Are you saying the only way someone would leave Islam to follow Jesus is for money? If so, how do you know this?
Marcus,
Yes the only way someone would leave Islam to follow Jesus or whatever is in general for money or someting equivalent and only if he doesn’t care for religion and doesn’t understand anything in Islam.
This is the situation because simply when you’re Muslim and you know well your religion with “all” the teachings of Quran and The prophet you are SURE that you’re in the light of God and all the other believes are in deep darkness and you pray for them to see the light. I’m sorry for you to say this but it’s like this and perhaps you’ll understand now why an oppressed Muslim doesn’t care about dying, he’s more than sure of his faith.
Marcus French
add to what bozart said
to be muslim you must believe on ISSA ” jesus” and love him and also all the other prophet but not on the way of christianity you must know that this world ” christianity ” was invented never “jesus” said this world so there is many things was added to this religion . if you used to read the bible it s like you read a story and we are not even sure that the writers of new testament have seen ISSA “jesus” add to that Paul after fighting against christians one day he dreamed and start to writ his version and you ask christian they tell you he was inspired and after we opned the door to others like mormans …
add to that many christian tell you when you ask them to start to read coran to make comparison they told ” Ah me even if i was born in christian familly i didn t believe on nothing but one day i started to search and i was inspared i saw jesus who told me to foloww him” so my awnser why he had chosen you not me to inspire me . one christian told me I m even able to make blind see again so i told him ok i will bring you one that i know and if you make him see again i will folow you if not you must convert to islam and i m sure you can t do it so he told me ” ok it s not sucess all time some time i m not able to do it”
so what i want to tell you that when you are muslim the coran tell you you must think god give you brain to use it and the coran can t be the opposit of science and encourage people get knowlege and encourage scientist and consider them beter than the others who are without knowlege .
so muslim can not return back and start deal whith mythologie
Marcus,
When you start talking with Muslims who know their religion about your way of seeing the things like trinity, the cross, sacrifice and others they don’t look at you only as a person in deep darkness but also like a child talking about stories like “Dragon ball” or mythologies and they don’t understand how can a big civilization with very high level of knowledge can believe in such illogical stories.
I apologize for being so direct but you asked me and I was in the obligation to explain.
With all my respect to all of you.
Another time let love win hatred.
Right now people in Gaza are dying.
In response to the original stated subject of supposed hypocrisy of people protesting those deaths, I want to repeat that these deaths are not necessary. Apologies if I overlook these various discussions of origin, religion, and interpretations of holy books, but people in Gaza are dying.
They are not dying because of any exclusive right to land or truth or righteous interpretation of any human or groups of humans. They are dying because of a political struggle that some people ON BOTH SIDES have taken as excuse for violence.
RIGHT NOW PEOPLE IN GAZA ARE DYING. Not because any one side is more or less to blame but because people on both sides are willing to give an order, press a button, pull a trigger, knowing full well innocent people will suffer as a result of it, and with no end in sight. It is not enough to say “If Hamas would just stop firing rockets” because the truth is that Israel ALSO needs to stop: stop its settlements, its occupation, its refusal to negotiate with people who both desire and have every right to live in peace and utilize the water and cultivate the resources of their own land.
Right now people are dying, and too many here are discussing the correct spelling of Jesus’ name (as if the transliterations of it haven’t morphed over the centuries and millennia, not to mention across the various linguistic changes that come about within and across any of a number of different languages of translation, including this very English language we are all attempting to use to translate our very ideas–a language that didn’t even exist five hundred years ago).
Right now people are dying in Gaza, and so many here are busy arguing who is right in their violent aspect rather than embracing ideals of tolerance and openness and urging that upon others rather than more missiles from either side of any divide.
You’re right Chris but as we say “for every different place different words”
And it doesn’t mean that we are not following and are not concerning by what is happening in Gaza every minute, and it doesn’t mean that we’re not acting everyone from his corner.
I was Just hearing Mr Olmert lying to the world and apologizing to the Palestinians and saying that he and all his government are sorry and suffering for every Palestinian and they don’t hate them and off course HAMAS was and is still the cause.
As we say “They kill him and cry in funeral”
Bozart,
You said: “Yes the only way someone would leave Islam to follow Jesus or whatever is in general for money or someting equivalent and only if he doesn’t care for religion and doesn’t understand anything in Islam.”
What a hilariously arrogant thing to say, it is clear that this is something you could never know, and that you only say because of your religious dogmaticism. I follow the Jesus shown in the New Testament because I have personally experienced the supernatural power of His Spirit, and because of how solidly the historic biblical Christian faith lines up with the truth both historically and philosophically. I seek after truth wherever it may lead (I didn’t grow up a Christian), it seems clear that you are not interested in the same, but only in spouting Muslim rhetoric without being interested in the facts. Wake up to reality!
miramor,
I appreciate what you have to say, it seems you are saying that you do not believe in the Christian faith because:
Is this true? If so, I’d like to respond to these points, provided you can keep up the respectful and healthy dialogue, rather than getting into bashing me and my faith. Is this something you can agree to?
My answer to you about what I think of what you just say was the second part of my older message so think and say what you want!!!!
I’m sorry for you!!!
Go and learn more who knows perhaps one day!
To jesus who wrote:
In response to the original stated subject of supposed hypocrisy of people protesting those deaths, I want to repeat that these deaths are not necessary. Apologies if I overlook these various discussions of origin, religion, and interpretations of holy books, but people in Gaza are dying.
They are not dying because of any exclusive right to land or truth or righteous interpretation of any human or groups of humans. They are dying because of a political struggle that some people ON BOTH SIDES have taken as excuse for violence.
RIGHT NOW PEOPLE IN GAZA ARE DYING. Not because any one side is more or less to blame but because people on both sides are willing to give an order, press a button, pull a trigger, knowing full well innocent people will suffer as a result of it, and with no end in sight. It is not enough to say “If Hamas would just stop firing rockets” because the truth is that Israel ALSO needs to stop: stop its settlements, its occupation, its refusal to negotiate with people who both desire and have every right to live in peace and utilize the water and cultivate the resources of their own land.
Right now people are dying, and too many here are discussing the correct spelling of Jesus’ name (as if the transliterations of it haven’t morphed over the centuries and millennia, not to mention across the various linguistic changes that come about within and across any of a number of different languages of translation, including this very English language we are all attempting to use to translate our very ideas–a language that didn’t even exist five hundred years ago).
Right now people are dying in Gaza, and so many here are busy arguing who is right in their violent aspect rather than embracing ideals of tolerance and openness and urging that upon others rather than more missiles from either side of any divide.
Three times you said in Gaza as if all that mattered was the people of Gaza. I may be wrong but you seem to be pro gaza and anti Israel. If I am wrong I am sorry, if I am right be man enough to say so. The deats have been high and overwhelming in Gaza I admit. Yet death is death. Here you have a platform to state how you feel. I would like to know if you are from America or another country? I ask this question for we had
1. (2003): The US Centers for Disease Control reports that in 2003, there were a total of 17,732 deaths from homicide in the US.
(2003): “In 2003, a total of 28,723 persons died of drug-induced causes in the United States
(2003): “In 2003, a total of 20,687 persons died of alcohol-induced causes in the United States(2003): “In 2003, a total of 20,687 persons died of alcohol-induced causes in the United States
The list goes on and on. I was wondering how strongly you voice your opinion over these deaths and what you do to try and prevent them
As far as our language being only five hunder years old I dont see the reason as to posting it. Unless you would like to go back to the oldest language in the world.
They say Egyptian Heiroglyphs Egyptian Heiroglyphs and next the Hebrew language. Though I would love to speak Hebrew I don’t, yet if I had the choice it would be Hebrew if I wanted to go back as far as research would show me, I guess only becuse I prefer that over carving on stone. Which do you prefer.
Marcus
the answer of your comment is in my comment 173
JESUS
it s seems that we are all comming from another planet.
the killing qs i understand is because somme believing like who has the right to live in palestin and also because some interest of usa and europe like petrol like strategy of control of the region and other things like that .
so here we are trying to conviens the people in this room that what ever the religion we must respect the other and the life
in other rooms we try to conviens other people that we can share what earth offer witout killing
If you’re really pastor and you’re reacting like this on death from any side than what can be the reaction of normal person. I think you’re full of hatred inside you pastor. But not only hatred but also ignorance because if you forget, Chris was talking about atrocity of war.
Marcus, are those the real teachings of your religion like the ideas of your dear pastor?
It’s very clear now but say it clearly and show up your hatred with loud voice.
What are you afraid from now?
You get all the powers and the rights now so just go on and show more and more from your hiden side to the world.
To whoever posted this, I am not quite sure:
To whoever stated;
appreciate what you have to say, it seems you are saying that you do not believe in the Christian faith because:
<ol>
<li>Jesus never used the word “Christianity”</li>
<li>There were many things added to the Christian religion that weren’t originally there</li>
<li>The Bible reads like a “story”</li>
<li>We’re not sure the writers of the New Testament actually saw Jesus</li>
<li>Paul fought with other Christians</li>
<li>Paul wrote his own false version of what Jesus did and who Jesus was</li>
<li>Not every sick person that is prayed for by a Christian gets healed</li>
</ol>Is this true? If so, I’d like to respond to these points, provided you can keep up the respectful and healthy dialogue, rather than getting into bashing me and my faith. Is this something you can agree to?
No Yeshau never used the word Christianity. It was originally a Messianic Community.
What was added to the Christian religion that was not there? If you point out what they were I will try to verify.
Yes the Bible reads like a story because it is one from the Garden of Eden to the world back to the Garden of Eden, Paradise. It is the oldest story ever written.
They say they saw Jesus, but you say they may not have actually seen Him. Well they say Muhammad heard from God, he may not actually of heard from God. Yours is faith also.
Paul fought with Christians, which in this context I will use Gentiles. It was Paul who was given the assignment to go unto the gentiles. You will have to show me where that fighting took place.
If Paul wrote a false version then you must have the true version of what Paul wrote. Unless what they wrote about Muhammad is the false version and in return I may have the true version on Muhammad.
No not every person prayed for by Christians gets healed, this is correct. I must presume that every person prayed for by Muslims do get healed, or do they pray for each other? This I am not sure of. You said not all get healed so by that statement you are saying some do get healed. Praise the Name of Yeshau.
Lou,
That was me trying to list out miramor’s objections to the Christian faith in an orderly fashion, though miramor’s not verifying that those are the particular objections he/she has at this point.
Thanks Chris, I was not sure who posted them. Each has a right to their objerctions I just thought they were very weak, and just tried to point outhow those questions xcould be reversed.
Bozart
Is not all homocide or death when taken an atrocity, as far as ignorance bozart I have seen quite a few of yours which did not seem to dignifed but I did not see the need to reply so hastely as you did. May I mention when one answers back with words such as yours they need only to look inside fr hatred.
You talk about the atrocity of wars. The most hideous crime is when one rears a child to become a sucicide bomber. This not only borders on insanity but on possesion of some force far greater and more evil than the ones who terained those children. I have not heard one thing of those crimes on this site or do you condone such insanity?
pastor lou, i think you were trying to thank marcus instead of me.
miramor, jesus, and bozart,
i was curious if you felt america acted in the right way by bombing afghanistan because of the 911 attacks? i’m not talking about the war on terror, just their response to afghanistan.
miramor, jesus, and bozart,
i was curious if you felt america acted in the right way by bombing afghanistan because of the 911 attacks? i’m not talking about the war on terror, just their response to afghanistan.
To tell you how I seen 911 maybe is one that could get me into deep water. I am not convinced yet as to who was responsible. There are just too many unanswered questions about the whole scenario that leaves me to believe that there is snake in the wookpile. Too much happend that day. I would never say what I believe on line, but I can tell you to go to UTUBE if you are familiar with that site, type in 911 and look at all the film footage, type in Pentagon conspiracy and check that out. If one wants to do something that no one notices then one must create a diversion someplace else in order to keep all eyes and minds focused where that party wants them focused. As far as Afghanistan, what good has it done to bomb them? That war has been going on very long and to what avail. I would of thoght that we would of learned a lesson from Russia experience in Afghaistan.
I personally dont feel any safer, I feel less safer with all the technology that the USA has and what they do with it. Don’t get me wrong, I love this country for wghat is was, not for what it has become. Lets all be honest here for a monent, every tinme a new democracy takes place that nation becomes as corrupt as America. Drugs, porno films, all all the garbage that has consumed America. Anything goes in the name of freedom. Television had good moral stories when I was young, the music was good then, all one has to do is listen to a rap song and see where were at and where we are at. We go to evangalize a country such as Japan back in the 90s, they had twenty homocides sa year, we have than many in New york in one week. I probably said more than I should of. A wise man keeps his tongue while a fool rambles on.
lou
jesus, miramor, and bozart,
although the pastor has decided to weigh in, i would was curious to know your particular thoughts about america’s response to afghanistan without considering what he said and all the other theories out there that could side track the issue i’m wanting to discuss. i’m not talking about the entire war on terror, just america’s response in afghanistan because of osama bin laden. in other words, if osama bin laden was the culprit of the attacks, was america right to go after him and his regime? please everybody, only responses from jesus, miramor, and bozart at this time.
JESUS, MIRAMOR, AND BOZART,
You asked a certain question. If Osma Bin Laden was responsible, and there was no doubt about his reponsiblity, yes then I say go afer HIM & those of that were in with him, in this case Al Quadi, yes then yes. I hope I answered this question to your satisfaction. I dont know why this question in particular was posed, only you can say why.
Okay, back to Gaza, Last night Israel declared an end to offensive maneuvers saying that she has achieved her goals: destroying weapons making facilities, smuggling tunnels, killing many Hamas terrorists. It will now be interesting to see if Hamas puts the safety of the Palestinian people above its wounded pride. Israel has declared a unilateral cease fire as of last night. The only thing that would cause the offensive to continue is more rocket fire from Hamas.
Yesterday I was in Ashkelon with my in-laws for lunch. Just after I left the Red Siren, as they call it, began to sound. It is no way to live. And now that Hamas has weapons that can reach any place in Ashkelon, Ashdod and Beersheva, Israel has no choice but to continue until all rocket fire has ceased. The ball is in Hamas’s court, as we say.
As a precaution, Israel will keep her troops in place until it becomes clear that Hamas is not going to fire rockets. This would be a good time for all of us to pray for peace, even a cold peace.
Thanks for the update, Ron!
Hours after Israel declares truce, Hamas rejects it, firing six rockets into Israel. Israel fired back destroying the missile/rocket launcher. Despite Hamas’s rejection of the truce, it is possible that they will resepect it and that orders have not yet reached those militants on the ground. Let’s keep watching…and praying.
To Ron Cantor
Rockets Hit Israel From Lebanon
The missiles are the first from Lebanese territory since the… (1/8/09)
Ron with these rockets coming into Israel do you think this will put Israel yet on another front.
How thin can Israel be spread out and yet remain effictive before she may need some outside help?
Lou, I am not an expert, but Israel can easily handle a two front war for several reasons:
1. Hamas has been decimated. Despite their bold declarations, morale is down, leaders are in hiding and they are just as afraid of the FATAH (PLO) as they are of Israel. Our job now is to keep them from re-arming and hope that the Palestinian people will kick them out.
2. Our air-superiority is so overwhelming and much of the pre-war fighting is down through the air.
3. The Israeli Army is not the Israeli Army of 2-years ago. The war in Lebanon against Hezbollah 2 years are was as disaster. We were not ready. The chief of staff was an air force general. He could not conduct a ground invasion. Our defense minister was a union leader. All that has changed. The Army has gone thru an extensive re-training in the last two years. I was next to Gaza yesterday delivering care packages to soldiers. The morale was high, unlike in Lebanon 2 years ago where some soldiers didn’t have food or ammo.
I am sure that Hizbollah was watching to see how Israel would deal with Hamas. I am sure they are not happy.
On the other hand, you are dealing with psycopathic terrorists. It may be that the scattered shooting from the north is to provoke a massive reaction so that Israel ends up accidently killing inocent Lebanese. It is important to remember how little these people care for thier own people and that most of the people are under great intimidation to not speak against Hamas and Hizbollah. I am going to guess that in the next election in the Pal terrirories, Hamas will not do so well.
Ron,
Very well put, I should of know better. First a belated Shabbat Shalom to you. I was talking to a marine about a year ago who had served two touts in Iraq. I asked him if he had been any other places. He told me all over the world. I asked him if a war with Iran was immenent, he said he was not sure. I told I hoped not I wouldnt want to go to war with Iran with them having so many people, he told me no big deal, he then siad he just dont want to go to war with Israel. I asked him why. He told me he was in Israel for war games and we got our butt kicked, I just laughed and said, what can you do with Yeshau’s people, he said be their friends forever. I pary for Israel, we give donations to several relief orginzations there. It has been my dream to come to Israel and live with those who are in need. I have always had a love for Israel even when I was very young. After I accepted Yeshau I knew why. Most of my upbring in the faith has beeen accomplished through Messianic Rabbis, Pray for the peace of Israel I tell all.
It is true Lou. Israel beat the US in war games between the air forces 60-1!
My wife and I were leaving Jerusalem tonight and all the roads that go by the Knesset were blocked off. We didn’t know why. When we got home I turned on the news and saw British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, French President Nicholas Sarkozy, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolánek in Jerusalem. I was encouraged by their words: No more rockets, no more weapons smuggling…but then again, I am gullible. I seem to remember hearing something like that when we left Lebenon and now Hezbollah has an estimated 45,000 missisles. The UN has a lot of bark, but very little bite.
I hope now you can sleep quit , like a machines we turn off witaout any feeling . congratulation for killing and injuring more than 6000 civilians without any heart . you deserve the good sleeping tonight. and thank to Almert ( criminel) who proposed to help the wounded by accepting them in israeli hospitals . when i heared that i thougt that was the earth quick that happened in gaza !!!!!!! (hoopfully the pictures after made me wake up)
but what is sure that rome, pharonic egypt, napoleon , hitler and other power had despear because they were against the humans laws and they thought that they are invincible but the time had kick them out
so will see in 50 years , if they continue to ignore the right of palistinians to establish there state beside them !!!
anyway they are used to live this place
Ron,
You are so correct about the UN, a dog with bark and no bite, but I think as you see the formation of this One World Government coming into existence she will one day yield her authority in very hars ways. The UN should be shut down, period. They in all reality create more havoc then they do heaven. No government will work here on earth until,
Micah 4:2 (KJV)
And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
The only just law, the only holy law, and the only righteous law man has ever known.
PS how likely is is that Iran will be struck? I have read so much on this lately, I was wondering what your opinion is.
Afghanistan is certainly worse off internally. Posters here might find it illuminating–rather than just repeating the vague assertions picked up from the U.S. State Department (and even more vaguely parroted by most media)–to spend a little time to research and see how much the Taliban has actually grown since the U.S. invasion there, and how many people have died, been displaced, been deprived of means of employment, civil liberties etc. This is not to mention the massive corruption of the the “government” there (which basically controls Kabul and nothing else), and the explosion in poppy growing for creation of opium. Oh, right, but you don’t really want to concern yourself with the fact about lives of the actual civilians you accidentally target. Just as long as you get your villain bogeyman (let’s conveniently forget that after seven years of assaults and “intelligence,” Bin Laden is still finding safe refuge).
Bottom line, that part of the world–like Pakistan, also supported and arbitrarily bombed (I know some here will easily disregard the incredible loss of innocent civilians as just “part of war”) by the U.S. in collusion with local “forces” (not terrorists because they wear the uniform of a brutal corrupt regime some other bestial idiots in the Department of War (oops, sorry, department of defense)–is more unstable and more of a security threat to the world since the U.S. started it’s latest escapade in trying to destroy rather than build up. Great job, militarists! Ron’s got a big army! Ron’s got a big army! Doesn’t that make him Right? Or at least a Big man? Well, none of the above. He can hide in his little bully’s fort and pretend he makes the rules for everyone else. Though I’m starting to think he must be a spy for Hamas since he knows so much about their morale and what they are afraid of. Thanks for sharing all your deep intelligence with us, Ron. Straight from the ass’ mouth.
To paraphrase a former Israeli soldier: you can’t stamp out the strong beliefs of other human beings no matter how many tanks or bombs you hurl there way. That’s why the bloodlust that Israeli adventurists engaged in in Gaza recently isn’t going to make the problem go away. Too bad allowing other people to live in peace and dignity seems too challenging a notion for the mighty Occupiers of the Holy Land. Might makes right! That is the message all you “ass-kicking” celebrants are imparting here. Your celebration makes it all too apparent that your war-mongering terrorism has nothing to do with any righteous cause. Only this: you will kill and maim and torture as long as you can get away with it. It’s actually more pathetic than you will appear if — and no doubt when — the tables are turned and your self-declared enemies get the upper hand and wreak the same havoc you have sown.
And since people are so driven to get the spelling of things straight here: it’s al-qaeda or al-qaida. And “decimate” means one tenth killed.
For a brief look at the political leadup to Israel’s necessary “defense”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM
miramor,
please be aware that the palestinian authority is not what you think. they have hoarded billions of dollars of palestinian refugee aid from around the world. the refugee problem could have been handled a long time ago if it weren’t for them. even saddam hussein would personally give palestinian suicide bombers money so the palestinian authorities wouldn’t keep it for themsleves. there are a lot of good palestinian people there, but the palestinian government is far too corrupt to help its desperate people, even use them as shields during war. by israel’s ohmert wanting to help the palestinian civilians who have been wounded, that ought to give you a hint that israel was not targeting innocent people.
also, i wish you would have answered my question whether america had a right to go after osama bin laden and his regime after what happened because of 911.
Mirimar, I will sleep as I did last night–Completely safe, knowing that the IDF is proptecting me. I just hope the Palestinians will continue to sleep well knowing that they elected a terrorist group to lead them, a terrorist group that would bombard Israel with 3,000 rockets and missiles (since the time we left Gaza), until Israel finally retaliated as Saudi Arabia, Iran or Syria would have had they been under attack. Sadly, the first poll taken has a majority of Palistinians still backing Hamas. Whether that is from conviction or fear, the Lord only knows. But the sooner the Palistinian elect a moderate government that will acknowledge Israel’s right to exisit (as Egypt and Jordan have) and cease from terror attacks against Israel that only hurts them, the sooner they will have open borders, a prosperous economy and peace with Israel.
jesus,
so in other words, when america was attacked on 911, their response should have been to extemist muslims “alright, who’s the wise guy…very funny joke guys”, and just forget about it? or maybe america should just sit there mad and do nothing and think to themselves, “man, that was mean of them!” i hope you don’t think that’s the way we should respond….that we should let terrorists just come in and kill us and get away with it? they’re actually breaking the law and have to pay the consequences. the same logic applies to hamas firing on israel for so long before israel decided to do something about it. i’m honest to know how you would propose dealing with the original culprits that came into your country and started killing your people.
Wow Jesus that was some long lines of death, and destruction that spewed forth from a loving person. All the crimes you pointed seemed quite easy for you to bring to our attention. Im probably the one who mispelled al-qaeda but I am quite sure you know the correct spelling. Oh, speaking of horrible war crimes, what is up with women and children being used as sucicide bombers, you knid of left that one out. Probably just slipped your mind. Oh as far as Ron being in intelligence forces he may be mesad, I heard they are very good, maybe have some in Hamas right now, who knows.
Dear Lou,
I believe that Ps. 2 is a picture of the UN. The Kings of the earth take their stand…on Jer.
On Iran, many believe that this whole Hamas thing was ordered by Iran to keep Israel preoccupied in the remaining weeks before Pres. Obama takes office. It is interesting that the ceasefire came only days before his inauguration, fueling speculation that Iran is behind it all. Something for our friends on this list to think about. Persians sacraficing Palestinians in the name of Islam for the saftely of their nuclear program. Who knows for sure. I don’t expect an attack soon (as McNabb goes down for a loss) But God help us if that crazy group of fanatics ends up with nukes.
People always complain about Israel having nukes (and we have for 35 years) and yet we have proved over and over again that we can be trusted with them. We have never used them and only would in the event of our obvious obstruction, and thus keeps folks from destorying us (10 yard run by McNabb for 1st down).
My one problem with israel is they, like so many in our world, prefer soccer over American Football. There is no comparison (touchdown Eagles!).
for those of you who consider israel a terrorist state:
1. did you know that israel was the first place in the middle east that arabs had a right to vote?
2. did you know that because of the freedoms israel gives its citizens, arabs from all over the middle east have been trying hard to flock to israel? the israeli government eventually had to put a hault on the number of arabs who can move there so it can continue to primarily stay a jewish state.
Dear J-man, I will no longer call you by the other name you pretend to be. The question was a military question. So I answered from a military stand point. Israel is strong. I could of answered it like Hamas (Allah will give us victory–Allah is great–death to Israel) You gotta wonder what is up with Allah? He seems pretty weak (because this is not about military but religion) and in 60 years he has only made Israel stronger.
But what should Israel do surrounded by fanatics sworn to her destruction? Take up needlepoint? No, you build up your strength, and by God’s mercy (cause we believe in God too) we have done so and it is our ONLY deterrent. We have asked for peace since 1948 and all we get is war. So you can cry all you want that we are too strong, but we have known for far too long the other option would be a certain death.
ok chris
i asked my american friend if Israel has the right to kill all this civilians even if they have the power to go in gaza and destroy hamas witout all thid damage and also the right to occopy the palestine. he was frank , he told me yes because they are the strongest. so i was agree with him and it confirm what i thouth before about how it sustains the law of the jungle .
US s used to punish civilians for there revenche, it s what happen when japenees had target peer harbor, usa erased Horishima and Nakazaki by nuclear bumb.
so yes they have the “right“ to go to afganistan and after to irak because they have the suprematy and the power and it they cowboy used way .
but my question FOR IS: what could USA do if BENLADEN took refuge in URSS ?
and who created benladen? and Saddam Hussain?
and what is the reel interest of usa to occupy afganistan and irak?
and how the weapon industry took benefit from that?
and how israel took benefit from that?
if you answer all this questions may be we will understand who is responsible on 9 11
Ron
where was a lord when hitler did the hollocaust may be he was sleeping or blessig hitler?
sorry it s your logic
Ron,
Yes Psalm 2 is what I was refering to. Even though it sounds terrible for Israel in Psalm 2 it is much more devastating for those who oppse Israel. With over 2000 prophecies being fulfilled so far, there are about 512 left to be fulfilled, not very many as we see some of them right now being completed. I hear so much about Israel the big bully but never hear about how some of these terroist groupsd who use civilians as shields also use women and children as sucide bombers. Now that is insanity. Why don’t the ones who train these women and children become the sucicide bombers themselves. If they are so fanatic for their cause why don’t they lay down their own lives. One day all the truth will be seen.
Miramor, Our Adoni neither sleeps nor slumbers, and as far as blessing Hitler one only needs to look at the Catholic Church and see her part in all of that. She was killing Jews long before Hitler ever came along. You being so factious only shows you lack of understanding. Sometimes you sound like you may have been trained by Hamas. With statements like that you want us to honor the Quarn, you got to be joking.
Proverbs 17:16 (KJV)
Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?
Proverbs 18:2 (KJV)
A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
Proverbs 17:16 (KJV)
Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?
miramor,
i want to ask you a random question. do you believe that jesus died on the cross?
pastor
i was just answering Ron by the same logic , so you must read Ron`s comment to undersand my comment.
you must know that when catolic chursh killed the jews the muslims protected them ok! so the grand fathers of Hamas protected them . now hamas are victim of the goodness of there grand fathers. it s not strange!!!!!!!!!!
chris
No , and even the in the bible there is lot of contradiction betwen mark mathieu and john , Paul is onother story he is totaly different
during the compilation of the four Gospels, many
erroneous transmissions without any documents were inserted
into them. These transmissions do not even have any
documents to testify the authenticity of the existing four
Gospels. Thomas Hartwell states in the second chapter of the
fourth volume of his interpretation published in 1237 [A.D.
1822], “The information reaching us concerning the times of
edition of the Gospels is insufficient and inconclusive. It gives
us no help as to the dependability of the Gospels. The early
Christian men of religion continued to write wrong transmissions
that they accepted and took for granted. Their successors,
because of the respect they felt for them, unanimously accepted
their writings without even considering whether they were true
or not. Thus, all these careless and superficial transmissions passed from one scribe to another, from one version to another,
and reached our time. And now, after so many centuries, it is
very difficult to purify the Gospels of wrong tranmissions.”
miramor,
Jesus says in Sura 19:33-34 - “And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life. Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.”
Also, Allah tells Jeus that he will cause Jesus to die and then cause Jesus to ascend up to him in Sura 3:55. Arabic word is mutawaffeeka (to cause to die).
Why don’t you believe that Jesus died? The Quran says he did.
To Miramor
I know that Corrie Ten Boom did a lot in helping the Jews during at that time, and a few others . You will have to show me where the Muslims protected them Miramor, and if they did, they di a poor job for six million of them died. Just tell me where to look that up in history Miramor and I will be satisfied. I dont recall reading that anywhere. I may be wrong and will stand corrected if you show me.
chris
i m so happy that you are believing on the coran because of you are refering to it.
i want you to answer me before my answer are you believing on coran so it will make sense to show you the truth and gave you the explanation
if not so you have to prove it by the bible because if you suppose the coran is not true so even this hypothesis is not true
Miramor,
I am still waiting on history lesson for Muslims helping Jews during the Catholic persecution
miramor,
the only thing i believe in the quran are the things that agree with the tawrat and injil. tawrat, injil and quran all say that Jesus died and then came back to life. sura 19:17 says the Spirit of Allah appeared to mary. sura 3:49 says Jesus would have the power to heal the blind and diseased people and raise people from the dead. sura 2:87 and 2:253 says Jesus was supported with the Holy Spirit. surah 2:47 says Allah favored Israel above all creatures. sura 5:19-26 says Allah ordained the Jews to enter the Holy Land. sura 5:43-44 says the tawrat is a guidance and light of revelation. sura 5:46-47 says the injil is guidance and light, and that it agrees with the tawrat. sura 10:94, sura 21:7, and sura 16:43 says if you doubt anything in the quran, to believe the Bible. sura 18:27 and sura 6:115 says that no one can change the words of Allah. If no one can change the words of Allah, then no one has the right to say that the tawrat and injil have been changed. the quran discusses Allah and the Holy Spirit of Allah, but i don’t say that you worship two gods. christians do not worship three gods either. so that you can better understand this, God made Himself availabe to be seen to the people through Jesus in human form so we can see him and know him personally, because we cannot look at the full glory of God or we will die. So He came through Jesus to save the people from their sins as a perfect korbani sacrifice for humanity, and everyone who believes this will be saved. When Jesus was raised from the dead, He told us He was leaving with us His Spirit to help us have guidance. This is not what you think that we have three god. You and I both know there is only one God. I encourage you to read the Injil and learn more about Jesus. Even the quran talks of His power, but there is more information about Jesus’ power in the Injil.
Chris
firstable , you can ‘t believe on just part of coran. or you believe on all coran like the words of god so you must believe that that issa haven t been crucifiy( and i will explain you all this sourat after) or you don ‘t believe on it s you can not justify what ever you want by the coran because it supposed to be false so all his saying are false even tourat and injil and the even issa and moussa!!!
for the tree gods all the christians are confusing when they have to explain the mythologie of the tree gods. it s clear that the trinty means tree things not one thing . and the the father, the son and holly spirit it s tree not one . how can i be the son and the father in the same time.
and regarding to the bible (who is not the injill because te injil is supposed to be the words of god not the stories of mathieu, john mark and paul the dreemer) jesus said when he was on the cross : my god. so how he can call the god and he is the god may be he forget for the moment .
i can send you one document about the refutation of the trinity to help you to overcome your confusion and to have the interior peace. the first step it s not to convert to islam but to know the truth of the new testament. just give me you email
Miramor,
In all that I have read on the Holocaust, Jews were not running around arrogantly chanting “Death to Germany” “Allah Akbar (or Adonai Akbar” … They did not speak of the day when God would kill their enemies. Nobody ridiculously promised those who died in the ovens 72 sex slaves on the other side. At the time the Jews, rather than teaching their children that Germans/Europeans are evil people who will kidnap you and drink your blood (as young some Arab children are taught about Jews), simply wanted to fit in.
Yes, tragedy has come upon the Jewish people. But what I referring to was the arrogance of Hamas and other terror groups in making everything about Allah. When the Ayotolah (sp?) in Iran promises that everyone who dies/died in this present conflict get the who parasise package, virgins included, who authroizes this? Is this sillisness supposed to make death okay? It is this type of behavior, made up edicts, suposedly spoken for God, that I was mocking.
miramor,
so you’re saying i shouldn’t believe parts of the quran? you’re saying i shouldn’t believe the part where the quran says Allah will cause Jesus to die and be raised to life, or that Jesus himself said he will die and be raised to life? if i shouldn’t believe these parts of the quran, which parts should i believe?
it seems to make very good sense to believe where the quran says that Jesus died and was raised to life because it matches what the injil says. the injil was written over 600 years before quran! you ask how Jesus can call upon God and be God at the same time. you have to realize that Jesus was fully man AND fully God. do you not agree that God could do this if He wanted to? just because you don’t like this, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. it says in the injil in phillipians 2-5:8 ” Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death - even death on a cross!” it says in the injil in colossians 1:15 “he is the image of the invisible God”. it says in injil in john 1:1 “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”, and john 1:14 says “the Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us”. it says in injil in john 8:57-58 “ You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham?!” “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!” in injil in john 10:30, Jesus says “I and the Father are one”. in injil in john 14:11 Jesus says “Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me”
written hundreds of years before injil, the tawrat in isaiah 7:14 says “ Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.” you should know that Immanuel means “God with us”. in tawrat in isaiah 9:16 “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
in tawrat in isaiah 53 “Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our sins and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our sins; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the sin of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their sins. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the sinners. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”
miramor, believe what you will, but the proof is right there for you to see about Jesus. what i have shown you is only a portion, so i encourage you to find out more for yourself. the quran says to read the tawrat and injil, so read them.
chris
i did read it but i found like stories like C.N . what i understand that you have already read the coran so you can make the difference just by the style of writing.
what itried to tell you that you can t believe just a part of the coran you must believe whole the coran .
andthere is no thrue injiil Now , don t tell me that letters of paul could be injiil.
god doesn t need to sacrify for us he is the god who create us. if he wanted he could create us witout sin and could trow away the evil. so the sacrifice it doesn t make sens . and if it s the human on the cross who called god ; so at the moment jesus is not god; if not there is conflict between god and the body . it doesn t make sens . we are speaking about god the holly the powerfull the murcy the the the ….. so why does he need to do that. what is the means of all that.
it s the last time i tell you if you want to know the thrut give me your email i can send you book about that. and you will have another perspective
cHRIS HOW OLD IS THE QUA’RN
miramor,
which part of the quran are you asking me to read that would contradict the parts of the quran i pointed out to you? are you saying the quran has contradictions?
you say there is no true injil? the quran says there is a true injil, and that the words of Allah cannot be changed. are you saying that someone changed injil? how can this be if the words of Allah cannot be changed? Allah says to read injil. what proof do you have that injil has been changed? i looked for myself and i see no such proof. there are thousands of original manuscripts of injil written hundreds of years before quran that still exist and they say the same thing that my injil says. why would you think that the letters of paul should not be part of injil? paul witnessed Jesus himself!
you offer me other perspectives to read, but you should know that there are many perspectives out there, and that’s all they are, perspectives. if you read all of the tawrat and injil, you don’t need any other perspective because they match perfectly and it’s as plain as possible. you have to be careful of the deceitful perspectives out there. do you know that Jesus’ disciples saw him after he was raised to life? each of his disciples were executed because they spread the message of Jesus being raised to life and that there was no other way to God except through Jesus. they were warned not to talk about this by the unbelieving leaders, but they could not help it because they saw it with their own eyes and Jesus instructed them to spread the message. they believed it so much and knew it to be true, that they did not care about being executed.
you say that God doesn’t need to sacrifice for us. you’re right, God doesn’t need anything, and He can do anything He wants, but He chose to do it this way. the way that it worked even before the days of abraham was that when the people sinned against God, He expected them to make animal sacrifice (korbani) because the penalty for sin is death, so God allowed the penalty to be made on an animal, usually a perfect lamb. to make a long story short, the sins of the people were far too many and animal sacrifice only offered a temporary solution because the people kept sinning. to offer an eternal solution for the people, God loved the people so much that He decided He would help them once and for all by sending Himself in the flesh (Jesus), who is sinless and known as the perfect lamb of God. God loved the people so much that He gave Jesus to die for our sins, that whoever believes in Jesus and what he did for us, will not die and have eternal life. so the perfect human sacrifice that was Jesus (God in the flesh who had no sin) was made for the rest of sinful humanity. not only that, after Jesus was sacrificed, He was raised to life, proving that He was God in the flesh. as I mentioned earlier, the disciples had no doubt this was true, and were executed because they were telling people about this even though they were warned not to tell other people. how could they not tell other people? if you saw this with your own eyes, wouldn’t you be excited and unable to resist telling everyone? even though you say God didn’t need to do this, you are right to think this way because He doesn’t need anything. but the fact is, He chose to do it this way. read Tawrat and Injil! Jesus loved us so much that He died for me and you to save us from eternity without God in hell! i love him for this and i have given my life to Him in return to teach others His ways of love and forgiveness and spread this Good News to the world. it is a joy to know that Jesus is very much alive today and i communicate with him regularly. you can personally know God through him also miramor, just ask Him. by knowing and following Jesus, you can be 100% sure you will be with God forever in Paradise when you die. there is no doubt about that! He has promised it and His Word never changes!
pastor lou craig,
the quran was written in the 600’s AD.
Chris
there is no contradictuion in the coran.
what i try to tell you is that you can not believe on one part of coran . so if you refer to the coran so you must believe like it said in the coran that Issa is not son of god the coran is clear about that the coran refute the trinity .
what kind of proof do you have about the authencity of whatwe have now like the new testament . i do know that it did exist many version of scripture and roman create a coucil after more than 250 AD they decided to adopt some versins and after it was other council who decided to reject somes copies and and and….. so please tell me other thing more real than the bible like you have now is all the word of god. you are trying to believe the big lie ,
you are afraid to be surprised by the book i want to send you !!! i wanted just to help you understanding.
i do know that i was two kind of koban one for god and one for evil and the one for god must be burned !!!!!!
you know what does mean “AL KHORAFA” ?(arabic word)
miramor,
if you say i can not believe on one part of quran, which one am i supposed to believe?
your interpretation about the quran saying that Jesus is not the son of God is like many misunderstood muslims believe. the quran says that God does not have a wife, this is true and we all believe this. just because Jesus is called the Son of God does not mean we believe God had a wife, far be it from such an idea! Jesus is called the Son of God because He is God in the flesh. people who follow God are called “sons” of God, but Jesus is the “Son” of God because He IS God in the flesh. it is your misunderstanding that we believe God had a wife.
your understanding of the formation of the tawrat and injil needs to be properly understood. there were indeed other writings that were not included in these Scriptures because they were either written many years after or had absolutely no relation to the original writings whatsoever. those writings were properly left out. the injil writings we have today are true and are written within the same time frame. if you read for yourself, you will see there are no contradictions. you pointed out that the roman coucil adopted new versions of the injil in 250 AD. if your date is correct, this would be far before Islam was even created, so why would Allah say to believe the tawrat and injil?
i will tell you like the coran said
you have your religion and i have mine.
i miss pytagor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris,
Are you from Israel? It is plain to see that you have accepted Yeshau as Saviour, I just want ed to know if you are from Israel. If so how do they treat Messianic believers over there. I have heard it has been pretty rough for some of them. If you are what place do you Shabbat at. I have a complete lists of all the Messianic congregatiobns in Israel. I received them from Johnathan Cahn who is a Rabbi at Beth Israel in Lodi, New Jersey. Have you ever heard of him. Have you heard his message “The Harrbinger”?
Chris, Lou,
Please be honest with yourself and respect yourself by recognizing that you don’t know anything in The Holly Quran and you never read it by yourself or alone all of it, because if you really did you would never say what you’re saying about it.
The only things you know from The Holly Quran are the few verses that they teached you in your theology courses with wrong explanation and the “packs ready prepared” to impress as you think Muslims “in your missions outside the coutry” and to tell them that you red the Holly Quran and you found that it was false and …
Recognize sir that you’re bluffing to impress us and I tell you you don’t impress us, so far from this result, and we’re not playing a game wo has the right or who wins.
We’re talking sir about final religion to go at the end in hill or heaven and we all know that there will be no other chance. so supose just for one second that this Holly Quran is the truth from God and you’re jocking and just bluffing us and saying that you red it all and you don’t believe it as if we’re playing a game than what? YOU’RE JUST LOOSING YOUR FINAL CHANCE TO GO TO HEAVEN that’s all. So it’s up to you to deside.
Finally I tell you that all what you said about the Quran pretending you know it, you’ll find your answers alone by reading it all without any help or explanations because you’ll need some explanations and help to understand somethings else, but that will be another higher level but your questions are still in the first level that you can improve easely alone.
I will finish By a verse from The Holly Quran:
4:85. “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers“
miramor,
i hope you will do more investigation on the truth of the tawrat and injil when you get time. it is the most important truth you can know! you can see that i do not blindly believe what i do because i can even show you what the quran says to prove i have studied it. i do not base my beliefs on the perspectives of others but only on what the scriptures show themselves. when you do this, you can see for yourself what is truth…not just because you were raised to believe something. it is my understanding that muslims in other countries are warned to never question what they believe. if something is truth, why should there be any fear to test it? unless someone is afraid they might be wrong and the truth is different from what they know. when i question what i believe, it only makes the confirmation of what i believe stronger.
pastor lou craig,
no, i am not from israel, but i bet ron cantor could provide you with some good information on what you asked. from what i know, messianic believers in israel get mixed responses, and it is the orthodox jews who greatly have a problem with them.
Thank you Chris, God Bless you in all you are putting your hands to, lots of luck with M
bozart,
you blindly assume i know nothing of the quran. and to point out a quranic passage that says that islam is the only true religion shows me that you don’t know everything about it either. it seems you only believe what you were taught growing up, and have a very narrow-minded viewpoint. show me why islam is the true religion and i’ll show you why it is not. i don’t say this to you arrogantly as you might be thinking right now. i’m responding as a matter of fact. does this mean muslims are bad people, no! they just need to break the mental barrier of going outside the box of islam by comparing with tawrat and injil. please do not be raging as i say these things to you. i come in peace and only tell you to look into these scriptures just as your quran tells you. when you read all of these scriptures, it will be clear what is truth.
Chris,
You’re not raging me but I’m only really sorry for you.
Be sure that I’m not following as you said and If you want to discuss it won’t be by wrighting let’s do it in a chat room with web cams if you want.
I’ll be ready any time.
Chris
could you believe me if i tell you that i was inspired and i saw that paul was liar and all christians are lost .
reasonable man could not believe tat , but christians are like that they believe on superstition.
it s not easy to invent like paul letters or mathieu book because it s like stories i used to read to my kids before sleeping. ok so weake up an start to use some logic . not trying to convens your sself by things of pangans and greegs when they believed on 3, 4 5 or more gods and on Korbans and thinks like it doesn t mean that if they still exist will not rspect them . when you are bad in mathematics will rspect you because it s over than your intelligencia but you still are not able to resolve logic question.
even the boodhies they think that there religion is the right and the hindous and and …
i m still telling you that to know te true give me your email(you create one just for that it s free) and i will send you a book about trinity and it s falsty.
don t let your arrogant make you blind , may be the blood of children of gaza was a sacriface for showing you the light of Allah
invent sorry chris i will correct my last comment” it`s easy to invent ike paul letters ………
listen to me, we can sit here and go back and forth with this over and over, but it will do us no good. until the world has come to know the love of the Jesus, there will never be peace. come messiah jesus, take your rightful place in our hearts and give us peace. i love you miramor and bozart, i truly mean that!
Chris,
I really love you and all the others here and all the human being, I really mean this. and my love is not like yours, without hypocrisy, without hiden hatred, without sending you any chimical bombs and arguing that I’m just defending my citizans, without dealing with the devel and working just on war and saying that I work for peace and I love peace, without…
Chris,
If there are someones who oppened their heartes to the Chris and really love him, they are the Muslims. Because they never lied on him, never said that he pretended to be son of God or God himself, never said that he asked people to worship him instead of God, never….”Mr know all if you really red the quran you should know this” And they followed exactly what he asked to do: worship God the unique mine and yours who created me and you, and follow the one who will come to continue what I began”prophet Mohamed” and he and Moises gave the signs of prophet Mohamed.
Chris,
We are all waiting for the Messiah and you have to know that we’re waiting for him more than you because he will come back to give up the opression from earth and to fight the opressers and the liars on him “you know who I mean”. And he will come back also to finish his live and mission, fight the liars and the unbelievers, unify all the world on islam, govern himself 40 years and then dyes like every human and creation of GOD. And at that moment we’ll have the kingdom of God not what you’re preparing by spreading the cross over the world.
Mr “know all you should know all this off course” and you will explain me the oposit. well I’m saying to you all this to prove you that I really love you all and really want to see you inside the light of GOD and all his messengers “Mohamed, Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah ….) and sinserly ask you to open your heart Thruly to Jesus and to read sincerly the Quran to find the reality that you’re looking for.
May GOD Bless all the following of his prescriptions.
Amen.
thanks for your kind words bozart.
To Bozart,
I found a message in my box from you to Chris and I which stated:
Author: bozart
Comment:
Chris, Lou,
Please be honest with yourself and respect yourself by recognizing that you don’t know anything in The Holly Quran and you never read it by yourself or alone all of it, because if you really did you would never say what you’re saying about it.
The only things you know from The Holly Quran are the few verses that they teached you in your theology courses with wrong explanation and the “packs ready prepared” to impress as you think Muslims “in your missions outside the coutry” and to tell them that you red the Holly Quran and you found that it was false and …
Recognize sir that you’re bluffing to impress us and I tell you you don’t impress us, so far from this result, and we’re not playing a game wo has the right or who wins.
Bozart you going to have to help me, I cant recall where I ever said I knew anything about the Qua’rn. All my posts are on this site so why don’t you find the one where it will affirm that I said such a thing. Secondly you need to explain yourself as to why I would want to impress you for. I would have no reason to try and impress someone that I don’t know or probably never meet. You must hold yourself in pretty high regards if you think that you carry the status of one who one may need to impress. Oh yes Holly is an evergreen, I guess you meant holy. Also, what need do I have to know the Qua’rn? I already have the truth and need not to get in a frivolous debate with you which would bring about nothing. So you need to refrain from things which I have never said, and stick to the truth.
Lou,
I’m sorry my message wasn’t for you it was for Chris. But if you want the invitation to know really the Holly Quran is for every one because you’ll find and understand things from the older books that you don’t have any more in the versions that you still keep. Normally because the One “GOD” who sent the older ones “books” sent us the last one “Quran” with all the explanations that we need.
GOD bless
Bozart I already have Qua’rn, well not yet but it is on the way. I just want to look at it. What I am getting is Al-Mudarris Qur’an Software, I just want to look at it. You must know buy now I am a Messianic believer in Yeshau and that is not going to change nor will I ever convert. I just need to see what it says. You say it is last book God gave, I have the book of revelation and I consider that the last book that God gave my friend. We each have to go down the road we choose, I have chosen this one, and I guess on that day we each will find out what the truth is.
Sincerely Pastor Lou
Lou,
I’m not trying to convert you but I’m only telling what I have to tell regarding to GOD, because I love you. And Off course every one has to choose for himself.
Sincerly Bozart.
For nothing Chris , it was simply from the heart
lou and chris
http://www.watchislam.com/videos/video.php?vid=3
i hope you enjoy waching this video
Good article about the solution to the Gaza crisis:
http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/justice_peace.html
miramor,
i watched your entire video. let me say that the former “pastor” who converted to islam had no business being a pastor in the first place if he didn’t have a personal relationship with Jesus. this guy had lots of “head knowledge” but he didn’t have what mattered most, a relationship with Messiah Jesus. if he knew Jesus, there is no way he would have converted, especially if he knew the lifestyle Mohammad lived at medina and during the end of his life. also, what was he doing being a business man at a sacred place where God is to be worshipped? this guy sounds nothing like what a true follower of Jesus is supposed to be. he even said before he converted that he didn’t like muslims. if he truly followed Jesus, he would never have felt this way. Jesus even tells us to love our enemies and pray for people who do us harm. this “pastor” was very weak in what he professed. he didn’t even talk about what was in the quran that made him change his beliefs. for every rare case that something like this happens, i can show you 1000 times more cases where muslims converted to following Jesus as Lord. here are just a few: http://morethandreams.org/ if you want others, i’d be glad to show you. it will probably take you a lifetime to read all the accounts if i send them to you. i’m not here trying to beat you in a debate. in fact, i even questioned writing back to you because i know that writing you will not change your mind. if you would like to continue discussing such things, i will be glad to give you someone to chat with who used to be where you are. you can try to prove them wrong as much as you like there. would you like me to get this information for you? please, since i watched your video, watch mine also to be fair.
miramor,
one more thing, the converted “pastor” mentioned that christians have many versions of the Bible. i will say to you that i have seen different versions of the quran. a muslim will tell you that the only true quran is written in arabic. but there are many devout muslims who translate the quran to english so people can read and understand it easier. this is the same concept why there are different versions of the Bible, so that people can understand it easier. although there are different translations of the quran, the message stays the same. this is also true for the Bible.
1 John 2:18-26
18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[d] 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
chris
don t feel bad , it was just to tell you that there is no absolut truth .we must never have to stop to search it. i know that you wil not change your mind . ever the ones who worship evil don t chage easily . i m not trying to change you or changing the word i mjust wanting to share with vedeo who show that people can change!!!
the only coran is the one like it came on our prophete mohammed in arabic . the others or translating , it doesn t mean that they are coran. that you can t change it
miramor,
i just need to let you know that i actually do believe in absolute truth. if i didn’t believe in absolute truth, i would live however i want, but since i do believe in it, i whole-heartedly try to live by what Jesus says. i believe what Jesus tells me, there is no doubt that His words are true to me. i also believe Him when He tells me this at the end of the last book of the Bible, the book of Revelation:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.”
one of Jesus’ last phrases just before he died on the cross is ”It is finished”, meaning that the prophecies that spoke about his salvation to the world had been accomplished, nothing else was needed for salvation. He even went a step further by being raised from the dead to prove that death had no power over Him, and that our hope is in the Living God. because of Jesus defeating death, we who have Him will defeat death also. Jesus said in John 14:6 “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”.