Understanding Job (by Christine Colbert)

Filed under Israel & The Jewish People on March 27th, 2012 by Christine Colbert

Zola Levitt taught that while the Book of Job tells the story of a man — his story parallels the larger story of the country of Israel.

We remember early glimmerings of the important ideas in Job. For example, its raising the question “Why do the righteous suffer?”

And that most-beautiful statement of faith that Job managed to voice in the midst of his grievous trials: “I know that my Redeemer lives.”

As we read to see if there was anything in Job that opened the door for dark experiences, we consider his realization “The things that I have greatly feared have come upon me.”

We might even have gone so far as to look deeply at why God, rejoicing in Job’s righteousness, more or less paraded Job before Satan for him to consider — and ultimately take aim at. We heard one analyst observe that God’s boasting over Job to Satan was done with the hope that after Satan had taken all of his best shots, God would then be able to bless Job even more. We appreciate this opinion, because it arrives at the same enormously-loving Father that Jesus “walked” before us.

But Zola’s teaching that in Job, as in other scriptural stories, there is a parallel between the central figure’s story and Israel’s story is particularly helpful.

God knew that while Satan’s worst arrows would bring Job — and Israel — very low, even close to despairing — that Job and the Jewish people would never turn their backs on God. He knew that the crusades, the pogroms, World War II — all the horrific anti-Semitic experiences — would leave Israel an emaciated, disenfranchised state of “dry bones.” But He also knew, and even prophesied for Satan to see, that the dry bones would come together again, the scales would fall from Israel’s eyes; that the second time Yeshua appears, His own beloved brethren would run to embrace Him. That like Job, God’s beloved Israel will finally come into her own.

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  1. So much of our faith seems to be in keeping in focus future promised restoration occurances and realizations. This is called a teleological, or of a future looking view, focused ahead on to hope’s completion. In the meantime, so much seems to be on getting it right, i.e. responding within the standards of faith, hope, and love which Jesus demonstrated.

    As set in the Job story, testing of heart regard and its considered confession, while suffering along the way toward completion of such: one discovers one is not God, nor God’s best man so to speak. One discovers that our best efforts still do not quite render the mind of Christ without experience in one’s life arenas compelling choosing the ways of Christ.

    The idea of ‘coming into her own’ as a Nation composed of people of God also considers in Job voices presenting along side his story as kind of network commentators, coming both as faithful comforters, and false comforters about what was happening and cause and effect. The latter seem to be found in all the religious outlooks of most voices coming at Job, except that of Eliyehu, as a voice of Prophetic and character formation reality, and God himself, as the all knowing, all seeing, One.

    What then came to truly be a comfort for Job in the final analysis, where his wife and children and property and supposed friends and so on were by and by gone? To ‘come into his/or her own’ what remains of the components and exponents of the formula your article presents by its identifications of the process?

    Wouldn’t Zola say that most of the voices in the story can carry forward in what manner into the present stage set for Israel? And the two remaining standing at the end, that of the Prophet, and that of the Lord, how do these define Israel coming into her own? Is it not the struggle to restore the people cut off to the family tree of the Father–by spirit and truth–which carries a possiblity of their Lamb’s blood forward to victory? What is that victory to be in light of centuries of dry bones rising up for what?

  2. Jabez,

    Ezekiel 37 provides the prophet’s vision of the valley of dry bones. Many who have viewed concentration camp photographs have recognized the relevance of Ezekiel’s vision of bones coming to life again to modern Israel’s amazing rebirth (and continuing survival) from the ovens, piles of skeletons, and still-breathing “skeletons” of those darkest days. Later in chapter 37, the prophetic focus shifts closer to the time in which Ezekiel lived. Often in prophecy there is an interplay between then-current events and those in the distant future. And these two different chronologies often flow together without textual separation.

    In answer to your questions, only the One who said, “Behold, I make all things new,” and “I will accomplish all that I have planned” knows fully how these events will culminate. The One who “alone knows the end from the beginning.” What we know is that we can trust Him.

    Thanks for writing.

  3. It seems then that a vital relationship to the I AM Himself overode any supposed religious argument, insistence, or cause and effect construct raised as important to understanding what happened to Job (and his people) by the commenting voices raised of supposed personal friends of Job in Job. They claimed to determine reasons remarked as truth and consequences by outlooks raised on the distress Job existentially knew. Situation by situation, status-accompanying speeches made to Job claimed certain futile human intentions as adequate for understanding.

    It isn’t just that Job suffered, was tested, and is later restored which is his story; pointedly harsh being becomes augmented as such by Job’s ongoing losses and story nonparticipants comments’ concerns coming on his scene declaring the meaning of a life supposed of his culture of reference as unrighteous. And so, while by heavenly permitted circumstance, a redemptive righteousness is what carries the story’s personal restoration.

    Such pedestrian detail seems to be coming into play for Israel’s religious scripts determining the speech-making commentators of Job being present as parallel preoccupations coming on scene from any of the diaspora’s disrupting crises. A rabbinical national forum, planned building of religious heritage National Focal Point sites for steps to having a Temple, and efforts to cleanse and set in action a related altar’s future employment deal primarily religiously with the disruptive results of sin on a civilization of the Jews. Incomplete, yet scripted of one covenant, all plain purposes representing steps toward a desired restoration and promised King are presently pursued, except confession of Yeshua as the chosen One for the Land of the People of the Book.

    Even if past brokenness turns of need to religious feasts of declared fulfillment, it must be divine life given of the Mt.of Olives river maker- deliverer coming to Jerusalem which heals the chosen Nation’s ambitions to be what it supposes it must be. Set then as so cast by Messiah, determination set by the ‘chief cornerstone’, tablernacle ‘tent stake’, and ‘battle bow’ becomes the prime provision for a High Priest crossing present barriers for the Nation.

  4. In other words, finding that meeting place between the Spiritual WORD and the present physical manifestation is stll a nearly overwhelming challenge.
    Whenever I try to ‘help myself’ concerning money, beauty, fame anymore, I feel the wrath of GOD (Satan: see 2 Samuel 24:1; 1 Chron. 21:1) come against me. I am eternally grateful that the blood of the LAMB hides me from the Passover death angel (I have recent testimony I won’t share right now) but I often feel that I have been ‘passed over’ concerning the blessings also. The Levites had to rely on others for the proper administration of the Tabernacle and Temple, in the same category as orphans and widows; yet in today’s world, the ‘professional professors’ (preachers and rabbis, doctors and lawyers) think high fees for their knowledge is their just due; so pride becomes a primary factor of the ‘old wineskin’.
    Does this ‘living by faith’: praying for angelic intervention rather than coveting money; being ‘undignified’ in the Spirit rather than soberly managing your host of volunteer troops (Gad) have much validity at all in modern Christianity? See how the ‘little people’ flock to the Next Wave of GOD while the sergeants count the money in the back room; will this ever change before Messiah returns?
    Sometimes I want that Whirlwind encounter just to sweep away all the garbage. Whatever it is most of our modern Christian leaders are doing, it has extremely little to do with ‘death to self’.
    In Him, Ron M.

  5. Some insightful commentary here, Ron.

    We can find true servants if we look for them. Regarding concerns with stewardship, at the organizational level, the ECFA can help; for more-secular humanitarian organizations, Charity Navigator is a wonderful tool.

    Jesus’ model was so beautifully clear regarding “lateral” style, rather than a hierarchical (“lording it over”) approach (“it shall not be so with you”) and regarding “keeping oneself small,” as it’s sometimes expressed, emphasizing the servant’s heart. “Call no one ‘rabbi’ ” might be relevant here as well.

    By being thankful for even the smallest blessings in life, we may open the door for more-apparent blessing. Sometimes, when we’re feeling a little low, we can almost do this is a lighthearted or humorous way to “lift” ourselves. Being thankful for every *smallest* thing. You get the idea.

    But we can ask the Holy Spirit to help us to develop a thankful heart too. Or to pray aright. Or to forgive someone. “Forgiveness is choosing a light and happy heart,” as Gary Zukav put it. We *free ourselves* in doing this. And we remember Jesus’ “seventy times seven.”

    Thank you for writing.

  6. Ron,

    There remain churches which are led by elders who faithfully teach in remembrance and reverence of our Lord. Whether from good prayer closet connection to our Father, careful exegesis, proper hermeneutics, prophetic insight, diligence in due season, etc.–the church moves humbly and faithfully forward. Spiritual anticipation is not just about meeting based behaviors of apparent preoccupation of style, preference, insistence, or emphasis; our meeting together stirs hearts and minds toward reverence as well as mutual edification. There is more gained in seeking His Word together than in solitude, though both are warmly apprehended indeed.

  7. Christine & Jabez, thanks.
    Prayer request:
    We haven’t seen our 1st and only grandbaby in over six weeks now.
    I convinced my daughter to come back to NC with us as the right(eous) thing to do,
    rather than staying in Fla. with baby away from her father, who is disabled from car accident
    six yr. ago before they met.
    Ma-in-law, ‘control freak’ is a mild assessment. She has connections with DSS;
    using every trick in the book against us.
    Why is the common perception that the gov’t is lily-white in everything it does,
    and a single allegation makes you guilty until you prove yourself innocent in civil ex parte suits?
    Have done a lot of research physically; this is a spiritual battle
    for the hearts and minds of family and friends.
    Similar to Job in that a type of accusation blindness is continuing.
    She panicked because of the control; we did nothing but convince her to come back;
    we are being severely punished for obeying the law that is being abused against us.
    In Him, Ron M.

  8. Ron,

    Can you “see yourself” with your grandbaby in your arms? I can “see” this!

    You understand that a controlling person is being moved by fear — the opposite of love. The dad’s mother feels the same desperation to be with the new baby that you are feeling.

    But Jesus said “Have faith in God,” or, as some put it, “Have the God kind of faith.”

    You don’t want to deny this desperate woman the opportunity to see her grandbaby occasionally — as she was apparently so willing to do toward you. And DSS has seen this kind of scenario innumerable times. They are “well-able” to see through this kind of maneuver.

    We consciously put this in Jesus’ hands — ***every time*** that frustration, unforgiveness, desperation, or any other ungodly characteristic would try to set us on edge or raise our fear. Regarding all ungodliness/dark stuff, we remember Jesus’ precious words just before the temple guard came to arrest Him: (The prince of this world is coming — and) ***there is nothing in me that belongs [corresponds] to him.***

    We place this matter ***not*** in the hands of municipal or state authorities, regardless of any irksome ‘show’ regarding “of this world” procedures that may take place — but in Jesus’ powerful, loving, and *just* hands. We serve and believe in a higher authority.


  9. The DSS assesses by its perceptions of acting in the supposed best interests of a child, and/or for a nonempowered by man/woman bond mother partner: as usually prefers a mother-child bond as a given preferred best interest relationship over a partner-partner relationship, or father-child bond (not in fact as then being disposed as first upholding a woman’s partner contested father-child bond, or, a contested partner-partner bond being separated as a consequence of the child’s mother’s own separation action. This becomes the DSS’s perceived best interests definition of a safe and relationally secure preference for their support of consequence before the court acting to reinforce separation without a real hearing in fact). They move to influence separated partners for the traditionally bonded mother-child relational status too by the particulars of state by state domestic law (which is set up to avoid continued conflict among partners and as such is not family law). Where partner abandonment (physically or by non support), abuse (the easiest accusation to verbalize by subjective feelings about another alone), or supposed as accused assault by a partner (substantiated simply by a partner of a relationship making accusing testimony alone–not by adjudication by due process until the situation is already supporting separation by court posturing)are upheld as sufficient assumptions for DSS and cooperating city or county court[s] to temporarily enact probable cause government responses, which further isolate a separated partner from a copartner child-bond counterpart relationship, regardless of any substantive objection of the then legally compelled as isolated partner.

    The DSS works with a Court Special Prosecutor’s office, where a cooperating court acts to uphold a lack of conflict or disagreement equally at most costs by its own processed supposed safety needs empowerments. These come to pass with movement against the missing partner in favor of a first petition partner through mechanisms like providing forms for the accuser to easily complete as a basis for issuing a restraining order or a territorial limit order on the other contesting or accused partner. The actions of violent partners then creating such domestic law forces have mitigated against all and any partner which moves toward separation while holding a child-parent bond of first preference. The response system is set up for the worst case scenario, simply by its support of separation enablements, preexisting forms processes, and ‘people versus so and so’ posture of intimidation.

    This is the usual case of action by what you call ‘government’ action. Unfortunately, it becomes a long and costly process for the partner isolated by the legal system safety or life support issue accusation process to have due process or a day in court to attempt to balance the separation support equation. It is like a law suit brought by the Court in consequence, of the ‘people’ vs. whomever the filed complaint for space is about, once a prosecution probable cause action or warrant is issued soley on the word of the accusing party (i.e. the once adult to adult, once called family unit relational partner). All this has become so complicated, entwined, and inhibiting, that young families working through adolescent feelings of supposed adult partners (usually due to perceived control issues) can be separated simply based on acting out those feelings through the domestic law predisposed processes. The system then can radically err one way, and contribute to the demise of any marriage or family in its processes.

    Though I appreciate what you said about faith, Ron, and Christine, the actions M.B. is taking on matters of societal drift–as to protest, legal challenge by nonviolent noncooperation, parent child movements away from schools making inappropriate political agendas part of their days, reasonable discussion and argumentation on matters the society is approaching by emotion alone, examination of false premises for supporting supposed unbiblical positions, etc.–seem to need equal representation to trust of God in disquieting and alarming situations of our attachments.

    I agree completely that love is based in part on letting go of fear, but too that in Job’s case he still felt the losses, the sense of invalidation as being a very child of our Father in the face of existential adversity, had his supposed ‘friends’ of supposed societal reference oft right and wrong voice their contrary opinion to his life choices, and was subject to the complication of confusion and dissipation of his best efforts to get it together or right to go on with life. Yes, in the very long run of a lifetime, injustices may turn around, or not.

    Christine, yes, it is proactive and faith responsive to ‘turn over, or put’ such situations which vex us beyond our capacity to problem solve into Jesus’ hands, where what is gained is our own peace beyond understanding, and endurance while suffering (not iton the hands of secular authorities so acting without compassion or immediate mercy). However, our loyalty is not just to what pulls relationally at our heart strings, or sense of civil repose, family, or lack, our loyalty is to put on spiritually the ultimate reconciliation position which Jesus died for. We are not simply trusting Him for our own peace of heart and mind, and to get through, to take on the situation into a long view on reconciliation of all churned up, but too, to begin to light our lamps without recourse in immediately unreconcilable situations. Comfort ye my people, is written, and so too your people, your self, and your alliances and apprehensions of the divine love shed abroad into our very hearts.

    It is supernaturally required that He come to comfort and refresh when the unimaginable, unthinkable, and unacceptable roosts on our doorposts. When this increases to a societal level our anguish will come knocking on heavens door for the Return. The government will be on His shoulders then.

  10. Thanks again you two,
    this is helping just talking & praying about it.
    Something else that came to mind this morn was a ministry (shouldn’t say their name, I guess) when we lived on Cape Cod when I quit the PO to help my eldest (born with CP, developed schizophrenia his senior year of high school) walk again after a botched surgery 3/31/95.
    And this leads back to Dylan’s birth, another long story; but ‘negligence’ by the delivery doctor is a severe understatement.
    You see, we try to forgive; John Sandford, many, many other ministries, books and tapes; yet we live with the consequences of others’ mistakes, with and without prejudice every day; and this has controlled our lives more than I like to admit: ‘curses’ would be appropriate.
    Back to the CC ministry, they had a double standard of some are called to be monks and scrub floors and toilets; some are called to be superstars, travelling all over the world on the money given by those who gave up everything to serve Jesus. We were indirectly associated with this during the crisis when it seemed that Dylan would never walk again. This affected me greatly, and I guess I haven’t been able to get over it.
    Crusading isn’t Biblical; I know we’re supposed to give it all to GOD. But I have found it’s extremely hard to do in the reality of everyday life.
    In Him, Ron M.

  11. Ron,

    Thanks for sharing your nagging experience. Unfortunately the lust for totality human beings bring to the four fold ministries of Ephesians–apparently believing that such are to become surrogate Jesuses–has left much fallout and abuse in its tracks. The legacy was/is based on a codependency model, not a maturing model. What helped me recover from such an all or nothing approach to life, and the matters and issues of life, was to take the Corinthians love chapter and substitute the Spirit for the word love. This moves to balance truth of being with desire for anointing. As I wrote elsewhere only God can handle His glory. We are not constructed to handle it, but to accept where it is lodged, in Him.

    If your brief mention was of Elijah House, and its school of prophets, perhaps not all was lost, in spite of the lust for totality of comprehension, assumption, and assertion of many ministries of the Charismatic movement. CBN on-line publishes a frank legacy of Brownsville today as well, where sustainability was obviously not possible. This is too a problem with the totality assertion, working its way into the soul. The spirit, the soul, the bod–all are limited in what an individual can internalize and be with integrity. The validity of argument is always proven or disproven over time, experience, and in daily existence.

    Sounds like you gave up much with the association of the Kingdom of God with that ministry movement, per se. Recovery from such fallout, human tendency, lack of pursuit of the foundational message, and the Way of Mt. 18, and equippage of others to do the ministry of the commission indeed crippled and wounded many. You are not alone, yet our Father picks up the pieces and redirects the heart away from the disappointment of religious addiction, to He Himself, and His promises. Lives of faith are built on His promises working out into everyday challenge by challenge existence.

    If we take the Revelation as a picture of the opportunities and challenges of cutting edge faith we begin to see what the word of their testimony related to the blood of Christ held for those who are beheaded for its maintenance (apparently by the enemy of Christ in political reality on the planet). The book is sobering. The healing and actions of the body are not achieved in that season of faithfulness and applied purity of heart. That is achieved on the Return, where rewards then accompany the government of the Kingdom come.

    It is a sobering proof text on what is sustainable, and vital to faith, and washing our outward bearing and witness. I wish I could shake those shouting out their assumptions from stages into reading Peter, James, and John, as well as certain believed as emphasized segments of Paul on gifts and giftedness. Jesus turns away those operating on the wrong assumptions of holy living who of self declaration do this or that emphatically in His Name. The Call for Total Commitment has to be examined in light of the lives and writings of the Apostles as ultimate proof texts: as to what Message they brought, how they lived, the sacrifices made, and the picture of the Revelation (which is radically different in this life from reading too many other provisions into the blood of Christ than are honored there). And this examiniation is both sobering, and reconciling.

    Personally, I have no desire to serve a Lord who cannot slow down enough to acutally sup with me and mine, and you and yours. I choose to serve Jesus. His promises of devotion and service and replication of Him are passed on to the body, the community, not the totality of indiviudal Ministry. Pick up some writings of E. Stanley Jones, gain perspective and balance, and renew your lamp oil, brother.

  12. Cameron was the first friend I met coming to NC 3 1/2 yr ago: a month older than me, both of us born & raised in Fla., similar backgrounds except my rededication to Jesus & his continued riding-the-fence like so many other of my old buddies; he went into his apt. to get his common-law wife a drink of water a month ago, and never came out; totally unexpected.

    This Easter Sunday Son Rise service I finally decided to write a eulogy for him; a bit secular, like his character, but searching. Hope it means something to somebody:

    Baptists Drive Me to the Cemetery

    Sun risin on the graveyard of my soul… outta control… can’t take no more-
    waves slappin on the bottom of the shoal… surf’s on a roll… show me Your Door.

    Sometimes it seems my unstable condition
    needs submission to Somebody more.
    Everyone stops shop talkin the streets
    when people you meet drop dead on the floor.

    Runners steal home, dogs roast on the grill.
    Take another big pill… wash it down with aplomb.
    Pondering the Cup of Contrition
    I have the suspicion it resembles my own.

    I know you intend to let me down here-
    past labor and tears- past all reason known.
    Kindly consider the sweet and the bitter
    when you deliver the ark of my bones.

    In Jesus’ love and name, Ron David Metcalf

  13. Ron,

    You are capable of poetry!

    I trust that your friend was welcomed by Yeshua to the Heaven he wasn’t sure exists.

  14. Faith, uncertainty, doubt, unbelief. Did I leave out anything?
    The time element is important, too; Job is a fairly long narrative, but flies by considering the months to years over the time period he suffered; and that is short compared to the 25 years of the testing of Abraham’s faith, or the forty in the wilderness.
    Seems like those who have a Visitation by Messiah or His angels, or a clear vision of heaven or hell, are welcomed as ministers more times than not. Is this because the testimony is spiritually irrefutable? I have had many ‘encounters’ with the Spiritual without ‘passing over’ to a direct meeting. Yet Solomon had two visitations from GOD, and still managed to become nearly apostate.
    I keep reminding myself that I am not the Judge. Sometimes my best doesn’t seem good enough when it comes to witnessing; I seem to come in contact with many stubborn and hard-core people. I constantly ask for more help, both from the body of believers and supernatural intervention. Again, timelines can be frustrating. But Harvest means not only the thrill of plenty; it’s also preparing for thre activity surrounding it that can be very hard on the flesh. (At least) One More Time, LORD!
    In Him, Ron M.

  15. There are words in Peter to the effect that we should be ready — when asked — to provide the reasons for our faith. This seems an important nuance. On the other hand, we have Yeshua’s Great Commission.

    Maybe Peter “speaks to” our conversations with people who (perhaps or probably) have heard the great Story; while Jesus speaks to the need for courageous missionaries to provide translation for and travel to the most remote regions of the earth.

  16. Christine (Ron),

    I see no other hand in either scenario, for both are about relating the teachings and life of Jesus in an informed way. Whether the first seems to be a life application reason and the second a more knowledge based scriptural intention, both relate to the foundational Message and initial Messenger sent from above to change our lives. Now we have both quoted Peter, and actually in the same motif. In 2nd Peter when he gives his outline on how to mature, he certainly is not mentioning the supernatural vision he had which changed his outlook on interacting with Gentile believers in the faith.

    Pursuing the passage I quoted is vital for it offers how to be prepared to give an answer in many and most situations. I am reminded too that Yeshua himself promised that when in situations where believers are “brought to” various challenging relations, He Himself promises to give us words of testimony and correct answer in those instances. Always, such bear testimony of Him.

    Ron brings up too the fact that simply because Solomon had at least two recorded visitations from God, one it seems with manifest Glory in the Temple, such rare and supernatural experience did not sway him from idolatry at the end of his days. This seems to underscore what Peter advocates, i.e. the pressing in
    to relational, devotional, educational, love, and character development shores up abiding in the Messiah.

    Beholding external presence glory in religious assembly then did not change the heart Solomon had been acquiring for seasons of infatuation with a King’s opportunity to gather both women and cultural variety unto his own indulgences. In spite of claimed wisdom, Jesus’ wisdom overshadows his limits of the lust for totality his own position gave him opportunity to claim. The Kingdom was at its bordered extent when he was King; and its citizens were pressed into its laborous service and demanded submission. External magnificence did not last beyond his tenure. His eyes and heart ended up errantly positioned.

    Jesus great offer of a 1:1 abiding with He and our Father then was something new, which sobered the chosen as named Apostles. Reading 2 Peter’s insight, it sobers and reconciles us as well to the King of the Kingdom of heaven come to earth. Stewardship is a uniquely New Covenant word in our times. Peter is orienting us to become givers, not takers, or self kingdom builders. Freely we receive, freely we give. We received freely the Message of Him, can we work on our heart commitment to Him to increasingly be of Him?

  17. One note (among others) from your comment, Jabez, that seems important, is the idea that the people of Israel, and later Solomon, and undoubtedly many others — who had direct, personal experiences with Yahweh or His messengers that could not be denied — seemed later to repeatedly forget these amazing gifts and helps when they were faced with important personal decisions.

    We so easily revert to fear or doubt.

    In the OT the word “ebenezer” is used. I had to look it up. I believe the divine Presence encouraged Israel to erect a stone memorial, or “ebenezer,” perhaps during the earlier part of the exodus — to keep them mindful of His amazing feats on their behalf.

    I have had a few experiences that revealed Yahweh’s presence and caring — and His knowledge of details of my life — that no one can take from me. Yet I find I need to make a deliberate effort, when walking through other circumstances, to hold on to the precious gift of confirmation that these experiences brought.

    We want to make faith and assurance our default mental attitude — so that the fear and doubt to which we so quickly otherwise succumb can no longer hobble us.

    Thank you for touching on this important point.

  18. Ebenezer is a familiar and repetitive remembrance and honor declaration setup here and there in the Tenach of/for God’s people’s own recollections of Hisfaithful actions, for sure. A revered leader I knew for four years of my own related training preached on this very reality while those in assembly heard from him in his ninetise, also with reverence.

    I know we can revert to fear or doubt; the Kingdom robbers listed by Jesus are riches, dissipation, cares of this world, etc.–these seem to waylay Totality of indulgence Kingdom of Self Experience and its related attention emersement seekers, whether Kings and Priests of of the old or new covenant religion(s). It is like mules pulling wagons with side blinders on, intent on advancing to the unreachable carrot motivator fixed in their gaze.

    The Lord removes such blinders for the discovery of His kind of loving as He loved. On “default”, eyes on Jesus–Jabez (Ron, Christine, Brian, Michael, etc.). If we look to power or enablement’s feelings as the carrot, we are not on default. Stick with the Message and Messenger, and the power and enablement will follow like faithful shepherding collies in step with us, Him, and seeing the flocks’ true needs.

  19. Ebenezer is a familiar and repetitive remembrance and honor declaration setup here and there in the Tenach of/for God’s people’s own recollections of Hisfaithful actions, for sure. A revered leader I knew for four years of my own related training preached on this very reality while those in assembly heard from him in his ninetise, also with reverence.

    It seems to be a delay in the visual in comment box editing process which preposts that unedited sometimes, so, find the edited version of my last comment now.

    ‘I know we can revert to fear or doubt; the Kingdom robbers listed by Jesus are riches, dissipation, cares of this world, etc.–these seem to move to waylay anyone by the Totality of Indulgent Personal Kingdom of Self Experience and its related attention emersements seekers, whether waylaying Kings and Priests of of the old or new covenant religion(s). We can become like mules pulling wagons with side blinders on, intent on advancing to the unreachable carrot motivator fixed in our gaze.

    The Lord removes such blinders for life experience discovery of His kind of loving as He loved as wider vision motivation for considered actions, when abiding in the true Kingdom King. On “default”, may our eyes be on Jesus–Jabez (Ron, Christine, Brian, Michael, etc.). If we look to power or enablement’s feelings as the carrot, we are not on this ‘default’. Stick with the Message and Messenger, and the power and enablement will follow related actions like faithful shepherding collies in step with us, Him, and seeing the flocks’ true needs.

  20. ‘nineties’, as ending the second to last phrase of the first paragraph above. It must be the server computers on the internet between here and your NC ministry website server which create editoral situations where the fist paragraph’s change was left off of my comment #19? Minorly frustrating.

  21. I am working on the timeline for renewal the Lord is revealing to post on the websites secured about a year ago, not yet posted. So far He is revealing beginning the Call this year through 2015: to North America, largely the English speaking portion for beginning renewal. Renewal comes through many avenues, all in Christ. This includes repentant consecration, the Counsel of intention to dedicate such petition to the Lord, inclusive of existing prayer chains, channels, and preset past declarations, but, with a difference:
    to solicit for revival this time requires hearts and minds in sync with the gentle progressive hearing of the Voice of the Father.

    There are many statements posted out there on a glorious church prior to the Return, unfortunately
    with many prejudiced as to how it must or will be. Our Father is revealing something New, a new beginning as essential to gaining His favor for such a visitation. His favor is like a nod from God, with the face of the Father both stern and understanding of our being all at once. What he wants for the past toddlers of preoccupation with this or that of the things of God is to walk step by step with Him as being One with Him. This involves letting go of fear, predisposition, assumption, blinders of preoccupation of how it should be, etc. Waiting on our Father then begins that new Call, or renewed Call (depending on how you want to view it).

    Waiting on our Father is to set a mutual counsel of hearing, of mutual intention to regard what He wills and wishes, not our keen ability to make it so, regardless of gifts or talents given. It is like the student and staff small groups which set to pray as a kind of experiment in 1970 at Asbury. They dedicated themselves to the task weekly, and petitioned and petitioned, and obeyed in small things of personal obedience challenges in each life involved, and set to hear what God would do to honor their prayers (not even presupposing for
    a moment the genre or manner of manifestation which would come with the visitation which indeed came).

    How can our Father do a New thing or renewed visitation and reflective Call to those calling upon Him if they have already conceived the manner in which He will come? Simply put, they cannot. ‘Be faithful to my word, my Message and Messenger, and the charge given before I went away–this is what is required of those who seek my Spirit of renewal.’ The Spirit of renewal will always bring us humbly to He Himself, not what we want or presuppose from past experience. Renewal comes to purpose His purposes, not a genre of supposed methods and means.

    He has revealed this truth thus far in this seeking season: be faithful to what is written, to the Commission,
    and its heart. Power and enablement came throughout seasons of renewal past, even from the Jerusalem Pentecost forward, but now, focus on faithfulness in the season of seeking renewal visitation, not power,
    not enablement, and, both will be given. What will come into focus is not us or how the final great renewal must be for us, but Him, and what He will show of the Way which will draw all men to Him in these last days.

  22. Insightful, Jabez.

    The scriptural note “Behold — I make all things new!” is so deeply hope-inspiring and encouraging.

    Astrophysicist and pastor Dr. Hugh Ross succinctly describes the goal that God assures us He will accomplish, in His word, as the elimination of evil. Of the newer life that will follow, the lovely passage to the effect that eye has not seen and ear has not heard the wonderful things God has prepared for those who love Him also comes to mind.

    I appreciate your emphasis on listening to both message and Messenger, Jabez.

  23. Attempts were made to be transparent in this sharing, Christine. My heart continuously ponders in the spirit of the heartfelt warmth of my own 1970-71 conversion before our Father. I must tell you that the notion of ‘the elimination of evil,” however and whenever by the God we worship is a wondrous and inspiring hope. This is more than a concept of change, it is a reverberation of heaven to earth. Who else could make it so?

    There is increasing confusion and invalidation in going the ways of this world, as saturates its marketplace assumptions and delusions about the meaning of life. Pleasure or personal maximum actualization in the developed world being some of the latter mentioned ways. It is not that our Lord has not created ability for such, as blessed in his Way, it is that key principle of abiding in Him which strips the bark and branches from the formation process making the useful post which will bear up the structures depending on its consequence.

    It is obvious then, that evil’s elimination beings opportunity for something not seen, yet hoped for.

  24. …begins opportunity…. It is the Appearing of the Lord which carries His unique ability to destroy evil, and next bind it up for renewed earth’s promised period of excellent, just, and righteous government. We simply have not beheld or heard such a state of life for humankind or earth since the Fall. Even with such a renewal, upcoming generations will have freedom to follow His government, or not: with immediate results carrying that blessed immediately to those heeding the New Order (more than by such choice observed among this world’s present state).

    David’s Promised Eternal Kingdom permeates darkness in this present season through the prayers, petitions, and praises of One New Man so standing. If the enemy of God could prevent or scatter the Way of this occurrence, he would. When God’s People stand as One His own fortitude is won. Doing so is the prerequisite for so doing.

  25. “The elimimation of evil’ will eventually take this world with it; not until sometime after the Millennium, but eventually. Revelation apocalyptal events will also make our pleasant earth in its present state unknowable; as the BP Gulf of Mexico disaster and Japan tsunami/ nuclear disaster are harbingers. Why do secular humanists and environmentalists fight so hard to dismiss the Bible as myth? Denial. If the earth bends to their wishes, perhaps their own mortality won’t be questioned by ‘the gods’.

    I saw Timothy Leary (remember?) at Rollins College in Fla. before he died; looney as ever, older, but going on and on about an ‘eternal life pill’ just around the corner. My wife and I eventually walked out of the lecture, shaking our heads in sadness. “How the mighty have fallen!” Over and over, yet we still don’t ‘get it’? The culture has become so immersed in slime that we can barely get through to them?

    True Revival must somehow overcome the demonic; its not just a physical battle, I have to keep reminding myself. After all the preparation, the Call is still in GOD’s timing, not ours. Where and when will the Next Wave begin? Will Dr. Brown cancel his radio show and run to it? Will you and I, whether we have the resources to go or not? Jabez was forever changed by his experience in the seventies; we are only 3 1/2 years removed from the latest shaking, as messy as it was. Study the Scriptures: GOD is not as nearly as concerned about pollution as we are in one sense; yet demands such pure holiness that we can’t even fathom it in another. I can’t talk to most people about this; knowing why you are Watching is hard to explain to most Christians; much less the world.

    In Him, Ron M.

  26. So interesting, Ron. Yes, one scriptural suggestion is that everything will “roll up like a scroll.” However, there are passages that suggest that the earth will continue: the “new heaven and . . . new earth” language being among them. As these enormous things develop, I’m thinking we won’t be too concerned with the details.

    The One who showed us by His response to Peter when Peter replied to His question “But who do *you* say that I am?” — that it *matters* to Him that we recognize His true identity — also told us, using the fig tree’s annual changes as his symbol, to *understand the times* — specifically the end times.

    Many credible, perceptive voices are saying we are in “the last of the end times” or “the last days.” Jonathan Bernis with Jewish Voice Ministries (JVMI) is one of these.

    Remember Jesus’ words to the effect that latter times would be “as the days of Noah . . .” To some extent He was speaking about sinfulness, I’m sure. But one also hears the note that just as in Noah’s time most folks were too busy with the details of daily living to see the more important thing that was developing — the same dynamic would be present in the last days — or “the days of the coming of the Son of man.”

    Also, remember His admonishing the Pharisees and Sadducees for understanding the way the sky looked well enough to predict what the next day’s weather would be — yet not understanding “the signs of the times” — namely His “visitation” — which was infinitely more important.

    He told us to be awake, that things would get darkest just before the dawn, that if the times weren’t shortened, no one would survive — but that those times *would be shortened*; and that as things seemed most unbearable, we could inwardly rejoice because our “redemption is drawing nigh.”

    His loving voice assures us, regarding death, that in His Father’s house are many mansions. He adds, “If it were not so, I would have told you.” Like a loving parent, He knows we would want to be told. So he told us about the intensification of darkness and evil — just before the best dawn and day we’ve ever seen.

  27. ‘As the Days of Noah’ presents daily in growing indifference, one to another, while being on this plane. How is the common made holy? ‘Looking on the face of the crowd, He was moved with compassion, for they were like sheep without a shepherd.’ His pronouncements about being and the Kingdom Heart come put light before the steps once attempted in darkness.

    My wife’s language, Nosk Bokmal, caresses, uplifts, and endorses mutual connections of all its people, yet one of these slaughtered 77, when turning to his own conceits–as to resistance to oppression only perceived as embracing resisting evil with evil–in isolation of the washing of feet. The preference of another deserving the Lord of the manor’s washing and touch, where only that part soiled need be gently washed…

    Awaken my people, awaken to join one with another, to yield self orientation to all believers as One New Man. He came that we might have life (and that more abundantly). The down to re-creation manner of ‘how to’ focus on the One Thing yet unclarified between and then with Mary and Martha. Had Yeshua not arrived, then lingered in passing at Bethany, what would have continued as it had been without His gaze, touch, and lingering presence?

    When I share about discerning a timeline regarding mutual petition and visitation it is not at all about a prescription, but of a discerning of quiet waves now moving onto uncarressed beaches offering assurance of covering–even when solar winds come.

  28. Ah, Paradise!
    What do you think, Christine? Should we anticipate and exhort?
    It certainly would be in contrast to all the garbage Hollywood is pumping out favoring the demonic.
    “Blood of the Lamb, word of our testimony.”
    My favorite poet: Wm. Wordsworth. Yours?
    I am not above asking for an ALMs (Art, Literature, Music) Renaissance concerning the Tree of Life.
    Video by far gets the most attention; this, our preference, gets so little, seemingly, that it is hardly worth mentioning.
    Even Dr. Brown employs the spoken over the written. I guess passion for the written makes me a scribe indeed. I also do videography, but not much lately; expensive, time-consuming; people will look at a movie a few times at most; but will listen to music over and over.
    I won’t even mention tv evangelism.
    In Him, Ron M.

  29. We have the opportunity to “live there now” as much as we possibly can, and in this way to “anticipate.” This “letting our light shine” is exhortation in itself.

    Loved (and still love) Wordsworth! The Lake Poets of England were such a sweet note in literature. And WW is my favorite. (From [high school] memory, undoubtedly with discrepancies, and set forth as sentences rather than verses here:)

    “Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting, the soul that rises with us, our life’s star — hath had elsewhere its setting and cometh from afar. Not in utter nakedness, and not in complete forgetfulness, but trailing clouds of glory do we come — from God, who is our home . . .” (Intimations of Immortality by William Wordsworth)

    And that lovely glimpse of being surprised by daffodils —

    “I wandered lonely as a cloud that floats on high o’er hill and vale — when all at once I saw a crowd — a host of golden daffodils! Beside the lake, beneath the trees, fluttering and dancing in the breeze. Continuous as the stars that shine and twinkle on the Milky Way — they stretched in never-ending line along the margin of a bay. Ten thousand saw I at a glance, tossing their heads in sprightly dance.

    The waves beside them danced, but they outdid the sparkling waves in glee. A poet could not but be gay in such a jocund company. I gazed and gazed, but little thought what hope the scene to me had wrought. For oft’, when on my couch I lie, in vacant or in pensive mood — they flash upon that inward eye that is the bliss of solitude. And then my heart with pleasure fills — and dances with the daffodils!” (I Wandered Lonely As a Cloud by WW)

    Thanks for the memories, Ron.

    A uniquely precious spiritual writer is (Victorian) George MacDonald. He is the man who opened the heart of C.S. Lewis toward Christ, or, as Lewis put it, MacDonald’s *Phantastes* “baptized my imagination.” Lewis nods to MacDonald in (at least) three of his works. Lewis said he “regarded George MacDonald as my master.”

    MacDonald lived from 1824 to 1905. He wrote novels — many of them framed as fantasies or fairy tales for children. But even these carried the deeper messages. I haven’t read most of his fiction (because of a preference for non-fiction, I suppose). But his ***Unspoken Sermons,*** sometimes configured in three volumes, as he wrote them, and sometimes combined into one larger volume, are unspeakably powerful and beautiful.

    The Victorian style must have been more wordy than ours today. (And in that time, as with the KJV, it was acceptable usage to refer to people as “that” rather than “who.”) So MacDonald’s writing can be difficult for some. But, with his LLD credentials, among others(!), he knew how to make a sentence.

    No other writer could be closer to the heart of Christ.

  30. Disney did not do Lewis justice; but his contemporary, Tolkien, has made a major impact on the early 2000s via the big screen. So how much of this is witnessing, and how much Druid lore pollution (as with the Arthur legends)? This is where Jabez’ esoteric heights (not criticizing at all) must meet the housekeeping leaven.
    We have a lot of work to do, yet GOD will step in and do something completely unexpected, as always.
    Jesus of Nazareth did not satisfy the anticipation of the Pharisees; the Toronto Blessing blew a whole lot of modern legalists out of the water. What next?
    In Him, Ron M.

  31. I guess I could Google “Toronto Blessing,” Ron. But maybe you could tell those of us who aren’t familiar what was wonderful about it?

  32. Not quite certain what esoteric means in your e-mail, Ron. Being faithful in little things here proceeds, including what I heard and am hearing on the No. American consecration criteria for His renewal visitation. Our lives remain committed and constantly interrupted as well. My mother had sundowner’s syndrome the past ten days, and that too has demanded time and time management as well. I have the gut that our Father is in what He has led thus far, and trust continues through the small contribution I am engaging. He has always directed to the Asbury model for the next visitation’s basis in counsel, petition, and solicitation. This means indeed that doing something ‘unexpected’ is in the mix. Perhaps you will assist with bringing the eventual prayer registry to the site of the Atonement in Jerusalem as well when the coordinated Call sums up?

  33. Jabez,
    I will go to Israel as often as GOD allows, for whatever reason. My heart is always there, even though I have no Jewish heritage that I know of. “Spiritual Jew”, I guess.
    The freedom of early Toronto certainly was wonderful. Many ministries were birthed from ‘just happening’ (no coincidences, of course) to be there the first few months; I suppose we caught the second wave on Cape Cod in Jan. the next year (1995), and met my evangelsit mentor in Jan. the next year: Bob ‘Brad’ Bradbury, who later joined Randy Clarke’s international team. My favorite evangelist John Scotland also came out of that very early period (as did Georgian Banov). Both R. Clarke and Steve Hill (to a lesser degree, John Arnott and J. Kilpatrick) can trace some of the ‘Joy’ to Rodney Howard-Browne’s early ministry, from whom we unofficially ‘launched out’ from when we later moved (back) to Fla. The cross-pollination of the Messianic bards such as Paul Wilbur also started then (from the West coast Lamb/Vineyard movement), and Don Potter and Leonard Jones were beginning to crank out new prophetic praise under Rick Joyner’s sponsorship. Lou Engle and Mike Bickle’s ministries were also growing during that period, and both my daughters got involved in all that. From there, GOD TV establsihed its reputation from the (short-lived) Florida Outpouring of which we were part of from the second day, getting to know Todd Bentley a bit from knowing Roy and Melanie Field’s family. Now start referencing to all the old friends we saw during that time, and you have a much larger and more recent evidence of the move of the Holy Spirit.
    Things got messy more than once; there were major control issues going on, some still unresolved. I certainly haven’t mentioned everyone we knew, either. But there was potential of the Family of GOD approaching Tribe that I haven’t given up on yet, even though these last 3 1/2 years we have been under tremendous pressure.
    So yes, in many ways it was a Spiritual party atmosphere; but I’m not going to talk about the good ol’ days when GOD has promised much, much, much more before it is all over.
    The light gets lighter; the darkness gets darker. I’m not a faith camp practitioner; I know what I know what I know.
    In Him, Ron M.

  34. Interesting, Ron. Some of it kind of sounds like a spiritual Woodstock.

    Your last line, perhaps tweaked as follows, is strong:

    ***The light gets brighter; the darkness gets darker; I know what I know what I know.***


    I’m going to hear Paul Wilbur in concert in a couple of days.

  35. I know what you’re trying, Christine, and I appreciate it:
    drawing me out of the prayer closet of my deep woundedness.
    I own up to being a Revivalist; but I very truly would like to see Dr. Brown begin talking about Brownsville with enthusiasm once again, also. But it’s hard, even with all the recorded testimony.
    Laughter is good medicine; Spiritual drunkenness can help you through intense pain; positive thinking can rearrange your focus and contribute to your healing.
    But Jesus of Nazareth did so much more than what is being done today that sometimes I think we’re still in kindergarten.
    GOD granted Job and Solomon what they asked; I thought this afternoon about what I would ask.
    It certainly isn’t earthshaking: complete and total healing for my firstborn’s CP and schizophrenia; the 100-fold return Jesus has already promised; having our grandbaby back we haven’t seen in over two months.
    Simple things. But it could be enough to tip the balance in many areas. “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” says the LORD. Waiting for earthly justification is close to sanctification? Salvation grace and mercy were so much easier; I just had to accept them! Now, as a participant, I occasionally cringe; what next? So I am eternally grateful for the recollections that keep you going, for the opportunities of Love, Joy, and Peace that I am given. I trust these witnesses make us more and more brothers and sisters in Christ.
    In Him, Ron M.

  36. You will certainly have the joy of seeing D. healed and whole in heaven. But Jesus taught us to pray “As in heaven, so on earth.” So it’s okay to ask for the heavenly healing here. (I’ve heard testimonies from people who’ve visited heaven. Over and over they comment on how beautiful everyone is. No one is ill or older than about 30; no one has gray hair.)

    Visualizing and “speaking to” our “mountains” is important. Powerful healing-anointing ministries can make an amazing difference.

    I can see that with CP and schizophrenia, the healing may be progressive rather than instantaneous.

    Any chance you and a family member or two could go to the grandbaby?

  37. By law, the case is already won.
    Ma-in-law (as grandparent) filed her own ex parte after parents (my daughter & son-in-law) reconciled, so she lacks ‘standing’ to begin with.
    But she is on board-of-directors of local safe house, so is ‘in the system’.
    This is the infamous Swain Co. NC, where a baby died just over a year ago, and another high-profile case is still ongoing via the web.
    The judge scheduled the ’10-day hearing’ for over two months from when she filed; they are trying to bring the custody case first.
    DSS never filed a case; the 45 days are up; but they had kinship papers filed in ma-in-laws’ behalf nevertheless. My daughter signed nothing: no service plan, no attempts to contact, no follow-up.
    One lawyer ate a $1000 looking at the case; said we had a proper 60B to dismiss, but he couldn’t because it would insult the judges. Wanted $5000 in advance to continue.
    The second, 60B can’t be filed until a ‘final judgment’; wants $3500 retainer, even though the 50B lacks standing and there has never been a 7B (DSS) filed. Still, everyone is assuming that my daughter must pass a series of psych tests, and my son-in-law (who is disabled) must pass a series of physicals, to prove that they are fit parents, against a list of unproven lies. Why? Nobody has said they are unfit except ma-in-law. She has blanket restraining order on ex parte, and anyone setting foot on property will be arrested for trespassing.
    I’m supposed to see the 2nd lawyer Wed.
    In Him, Ron M.

  38. Lawyers — what can we say? “You can’t serve God and mammon.”

    Any chance of an attorney who would work on contingency? Or one who offers a free initial consultation? I’d think your daughter and her husband might well qualify for legal aid?

    Where is the baby now? Under DSS?

    The business about your having a legitimate 60B (or whatever), but the attorney (who was so willing to consume your dollars) “wouldn’t want to insult the judges.” What is that?

  39. Makes Job’s detractors seem simple by conparison. Find a lawyer who is willing to insult the judges, Job eventually did.

  40. I’m pretty thorough; tried everything I know so far; I’ll leave it there.
    Turned to Job 35 & 36 this morn; ‘young Elijah’, you know…
    Good reminder for me; Boris, who continues to debate on LOF, should read it, too.

    I would like to say that I rejoice in beginning to see change in my lifetime, in that self-serving ministries based on exploitation, and despise Israel, are beginning to be judged and fail.
    I would like to give Dr. Brown another gentle nudge to step into something much greater than what he has done so far; but GOD most often makes you give up the old for the new, so this is very difficult.

    Job prayed for his friends in strength, not weakness. GOD’s visitation gave him all he needed for his restoration, and it was recognized by all.
    In Him, Ron M.

  41. Ron,

    It seems Michael Brown has all he can handle at this juncture. –J.H.



    It seems like M.B.has a lot on his plate now. It would be interesting to know what you would like to see come to pass because of your past vesting in the matters of interest. –Jabez

  42. Jabez, Shabbat Shalom.

    Control has been a major issue in “Church’ since I can remember.
    I have been a ‘member’ of Southern Baptists and Assembly of God in my lifetime; and associated with many evangelical ‘movements’, some of which I mentioned above.
    Many times someone’s name gets caught up in their ‘ministry’, so that you can’t tell where the gospel begins and their own influence ends; and this is normal in some circles, and more abnormal in others, such as missionaries on the field, who tend (speaking in generalities) to have much less exposure, but at the same time much less support. So by terms of the ‘limelight’ money, beauty, and fame win over justice, mercy, and righteousness in the ‘natural’, and this has been the same as with Messiah on earth, vs. the High Priest; except for the Resurrection transcending the status quo.
    Simply stated, this is the reality of ‘business administration’ in Church organization.
    So, what should be done? Despair of ‘gatherings’ without exploitation, pray for angelic intervention; what?
    This is the prelude. I’m constantly looking for someone who ‘sees’ beyond themselves to a greater goal and already has some ‘influence’; and I’m constantly disappointed. But there’s also a dichotomy in ‘the violent taking the kingdom by force’ (that I think is usually misinterpreted) and ‘being a servant to all’ (which, in the specifics of Popedom. is more pomp and circumstance than taken literally) that was only once ever properly demonstrated: Jesus and the twelve. Yet GOD already knew what would happen when man(kind) gets in the way; so there’s some grace that allows abuse to continue, even while the ‘contrite’ call out for justice.
    So mass recognition and humble leadership seem to be distinct propositions which even the Catholic entity can’t quite merge into an acceptable icon (the near-worship of the ‘saints’ being a contradiction in point).
    There is a genuine beating of our collective heart for sweeping revival; yet who will Call It Forth? And how much is it an good idea vs. a GOD idea? What ‘council’ is equipped to make that judgment?
    I could say: let’s get Don Potter, Leonard Jones, Roy Fields, Lindell Cooley, Misty Edwards, Jo An McFatter, the Scaggs family, Paul Wilbur, and about 200 other Christian musicians together (not offending anyone by exclusion, the list is so long) and have the biggest stadium concerts all over the US and the world; and spend all the time and effort doing it; and still be terribly disappointed at the end of it all even if it was called by the New York Times as the best dress reshearsal for Heaven ever conceived: if GOD isn’t the One rebuilding the Tabernacle of David (Amos 9:11).
    But this spiritual oppression is killing me; I miss the Party: the rejoicing, the joy, the excitement and urgency that was by no means contrived. I think Dr. Brown misses it, too. I WOULD DANCE A THOUSAND MILES FOR HIS GREAT LOVE! Please, GOD: You have to keep Your promises!
    In Him, Ron M.

  43. Interesting, Ron. Shabbat Shalom.

    The passage you mention, which is in red letters and the words of Jesus, is one of the more difficult ones in Scripture. Here is the American Standard Version translation:

    “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and men of violence take it by force.” Matthew 11:12 (ASV)

    But notice how the NLT has it:

    “And from the time John the Baptist began preaching until now, the Kingdom of Heaven has been forcefully advancing, and violent people are attacking it.”

    I heard Dr. John Garr translate it this way:

    “The kingdom of heaven is breaking forth, and passionate people are taking hold of it.”

    So interesting — and diverse!


  44. Ron,

    We all have unique histories of such vesting, with learned religious behaviors and participations, of the preferences sown of those heeded somewhere, sometime, with related meeting based reinforced format likes and dislikes. We have heard and accepted keen discoveries of group and personal meaning, unison, and considered regard–such become of continuing hopes and fears related to being in Christ, for sure. Having started entry into the Kingdom in the Spirit–where likely our spirits soared as faith accompanied feeling while gathered together–it is interesting to see what of any first chest felt hopes continue to churn up and remain important for some regarding related expectations thought of as centered in gatherings and meetings over time. It seems that historic revival invites participation, affirms anticipation, and solicits its own affirmation.

    Pursuits which become affirmed among believers in pragmatic and studied exploration, as to achieving knowledge of God and His wisdom, also gain credence in time in coming to rest in His strength and confidence of being. This involves little build up in gatherings, of waves or lulls, or vociferous cantor, for, such may involve each day’s early made decisions of devotions to wait on God in time. Though it is written gifting and ministry equip and mutually relate the Saints of the Kingdom to heaven and to one another on earth, and are given for doing good works prior divinely prepared, it is also written that our leadership is not to be despotic or controlling as the faulted secular rulers of Yeshua’s visitation were stated to be. It seems the world’s leadership was then self aggrandizing and indulgent in the manner in which they so ruled. What is given in association with Christ as the finest and most excellent pursuit attends to the interests of others and Christ as the focus after the shouting stops, where even heaven is quieted (2 Cor 4:5 seems an outlook achieved among the Apostles long after Pentecost affirmed their first church expectancy gathering).

    This season seems to lack inspiration compelling respect beyond petty loyalties for many. And this may be why the heart waits and hopes for more than present perceptions. There is peace that passes understanding.

    Regardless of the forms appreciated in relationship to godly gatherings, revival and renewal are really the Father’s central affair, where we receive the invitation to engage the heavenly realm to know its impact and change as distilled here below. Yet too a mature faith allows the heart to warm to more than religious preferences, Corinthian like contention or insistence for this or that expectation, or Corinthian like myopic loyalty to this one or that one. Tuning in Christian networked preaching today we find the reasonable, the approachable, the quietude of wisdom, as well as the yelling of some apparently believing that loud statements become greater than the heavens declare of the Glory of God in Christ.

    The hopes and fears of all the years ultimately are brought to the Father when the body waxes old like a garment, the desires change from those keen of senses for knowing experience (within the boundaries the Word and creative order) permit, and the law of liberty soars the soul to new possibility. It seems the communication commission challenges require fresh visitation, inspiration, and spreading the Word beyond our own circles of interest or confession or confusion.

  45. springs and falls, wells & rivers…
    but what about the ‘dams’? treasure in earthen vessels, or broken cisterns?

    How much should be ‘stored up’ v. ‘take no thought..,?’
    The Father gave the Storehouse plan; gave precise details for the Temple (even in present future tense: latter Ezekiel) yet never ‘commanded’ any of it; only agreed.

    The Hebrew history places emphasis upon the natural; the NT, upon the Spiritual (the Wind blows where it wills…); but ZION remains a standard on a hill, where Messiah, The Standard, will one day reign.

    Yes, I can confine myself to a monastic cell and write beautiful poetry, and have. But is this the present Vision? The Agreement becomes the mobilizing thrust, as long as we first agree with GOD.

    I’m reminding of David tromping around one side of the Rock, and Saul the other… I’ve hiked remote places like that in Az. You’re right to remind me that Communion is so far beyond the shouting that it becomes indescribable. Yet, there is still the Sound: the Shouting: a time and place; and also the awesome silence.

    In Him, Ron M.

  46. Because of the faithfulness of the collective Messianic Moshavim witness and sacrifice of pursuit of Yeshua in and for the Kingdom (Coming soon to Israel) the Lord will begin His work, ‘still still still, wait in silence and stillness, for I know what is already formed within you’ as begins the marked trickle of anointing from above to our Continent in Kansas City: when Asher Intrater brings His Word to Kansas City in Mid May this next month. ‘My Candlestick will glow among you. I AM that glow’. This will be a sobering comprehension with weeping and its refreshment of souls of what is requested and required by our Lord for the Jar to break and flow. The Continent’s Consecration Call to counsel and power will begin as Asher brings His Word. Seek the Lord, seek the Lord, seek the Lord, hear His Voice among us.

  47. If the KC Prophets had ever gotten past a single franchise and ‘seen’ the Vision of the City (i.e. Ed Silvosa, ‘That None Should Perish”) we would already be much further along than we are now.
    Christine, one of the hardest verses in the Bible for me is this:
    Isa. 45:11:…”Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons; and concerning the work of My hands, command you Me.” Is GOD here being sarcastic?
    In Him, Ron M.

  48. Those of the Moshavim have told what they have seen, believed, and have heard to the point of high cost publicity stoking opposition of personal losses coming their way from the unwitting haters of the clear history of Yeshua as Messiah. The luxury of proclamation given among a celebrated cause among a religiously devoted group of a distant Land acting of s reported ‘franchise’ has not been their experience. The price has been high, without such a francise or reported connection for that place as to its very manner of engagement. It is like John yielding to Yeshua when coming to his Jordan River placement, Asher coming to Kansas City–even though a strongly labled association with the first anointing of Christ on His First Church is employed in advertising this gathering. Is it wise to raise such an expectation, or wise to state what will be requested of our Father–and, as to outcome, declare an expectancy of waiting on Him for affirmation of intention?

    No matter how advertised a hope for a new Pentecost presupposes a designated intention, it is still the business of the Father to make it so, to grant any nod of response, or to respond in ways expected or otherwise completely not expected. A conference theme does not indicate what the Spirit of Prophecy will or will not underscore in sincere gatherings in His Name. Asher has written what he has written and said what he has said prophetically without compromise on the Kingdom coming among the People of the Book in the Land. In the process, his has been of the spirit of unity among brethren there, and once, in his formation years, among such here.

    Comfort us now or comfort through power rhetoric has not been offered as to assumption at all in his analysis, proclamation, or future assertion of the clear renewal of a remnant among the People chosen to regather in the chosen Land. It is the time for such a community to be heard among a culture which has often damaged the very notion of community, or a people of God’s cobearing truth and grace along with one another for upgrading beyond the heart of God other preferences and values of a marketing based society.

    More personal than giving speeches of assumption based on sharing something packaged as prelabeled, coming as anything which seems to conjoin intention for attention formed in expectation of this or that blessing or new absolute declaration comes now he who will share something of substance from meeting with God in sacrifical community. Let it be. Wait and see.

  49. Ron,

    I looked at five versions via Biblegateway.com. The NLT seems clearest on Isaiah 45:11:

    This is what the Lord says—
    the Holy One of Israel and your Creator:
    “Do you question what I do for my children?
    Do you give me orders about the work of my hands?”

    The tone here seems reminiscent of the “parental” tone the divine Voice uses with Job. It is a reminding of His “office” or stature, perhaps. But the God we see in Jesus is self-emptying, a humble servant. In Jesus, God *takes responsibility* for His creation — you and me.

  50. OK,

    So rereading my own cryptic writing, above, after another session flat on my back recovering from mind fogging back pain while responding to your posting (with the weakness of pain fog from my permanent injury fogging related expression) I will attempt to be more precise. Ron, you wrote of the franchise approach to revival, and prayer, and the prophetic claim of gifting, and I responded by attempting to compare and contrast the mentioned franchise approach with the differences of credibility for one speaker advertised for the coming “Second Pentecost” conference in KC in Mid May. And I shared too from my own hearing of what I heard in my own prayer closet on the matter. You seemed to find the notion of advertising such a franchised ministry, as to its claims, titled proclamation of claim, and acting on its placement as a supposed anointed one as a kind of present day preconceived and prelabeled business, rather than a clear calling for related faith activity by those advertising such claims. The very nature of approach to the challenge and related claims seems to be suspect by your response to it, and what I requested of you.

    And these claims seem to be both questionable as to any absolutes so associated with its self label, and stepping out in faith active as well–seemingly so all at the same time. I picked up on the questioning side of the balance sheet–of faith and the questionabl–by quoting your franchise analogy. This certainly is an American business model analogy, for a self declared prayer ministry center, which implies a disingenuous element among its self labeled proclamations, as such. There is no question that a business model analogy applies to some degree, as well as a name it and claim it analogy, and a legitimate step by step movement toward unseen unrealized goals of faith all at the same time.

    In bringing up Asher I. as a conference advertised speaker, listed as on the conference ‘ministry team’ I attempted to bring up some marked differences between his approach to the challenges involved and the business advertising conference packaging approach. Consider the fruit and nature of the two communities of speaker engagements for the conference in drawing your own conclusions, or, as suggested in assessing such a self labeled ‘ministry package’ approach, wait and see what happens. I took this to prayer here and quoted what I personally heard on the matter. This also raised greater discernment matters as well as the issues you raised about claiming such a label becoming crippling to others permitting and organizing other intentions, around other counsel of intention, and purpose than any conference theme or past proclamations of the self labeled ministry involved. This then raises the lingering issue of what is active of the gifting of Ephesians, Corinthians, and Romans, and what is pretense or prepackaged hype?

    The Commission communication challenges arise among all claimants to the positions coincidental to any ministries’ self labeling of already being on the Throne with Jesus, and all other realities tempering such claims.
    Asher I., I believe, comes from a self sacrificing community of faith, not an advertising business model for ministry assumption, per se. In this world it becomes often problematic to know the differences, per se. I make no negative claims about the other listed ‘team member’ speakers for the “second Pentecost” conference, and would defer to your own concerns in certain cases of your own accumulated distrust of authenticity and ways and means to accomplish what is in focus as to desire and faith: i.e. revival and renewal. As change agents to a Nation in difficulty, morally, and as to its faithful orchestrations of being a Nation composed of many believers you have raised the concern of authenticity, duplicity, self serving motivations and declarations and all nuances in between in venturing out as past demonstrated among those of the ‘franchise’>

    I have past written here openly and frankly about the risks involved in declaring any ministry anointed, called, chosen, and equipped–as being more vital to addressing the signs of the times than other ministries or equippage claimed of any and all of the Faith by scripture. On the one hand is one to become just like Jesus, or ‘greater than’ He was during the Visitation to complete their calling, or is something else to become the lens on what is needed to bring to pass a sore needed revitalization of Gospel affiliated Commission witness? What a ‘franchise’ is saying about the need, does that align with what the New Covenant, its ministry, its equipage, and its purity of approach say in scripture about the Last Days and what is needful?

    There is also the contemplative aspect of Jesus seeking purity of heart and spiritual clarity with His Father when He went to places apart from the pressing crowds, to go to the Father to recharge and renew His own giftedness and Call. Leave this individual calling aspect of waiting on God out of the matter of renewal, make instead a self labeled self claimed ministry mechanism effort of intention and proclaimed by label anointing and what have we? There are the conference labeled action items (pray through the night, have the right awe inspiring speakers on our ‘team’, etc.), and there can be said to be a formula approach to the challenge. Where such does not slow down to be in step with the Spirit much effort of the flesh may attempt to ‘work’ the formula toward a predictable outcome from past historical literature and eyewitness reporting of such, for such.

    At some political risk of isolation, and perhaps excommunication, here on the VOR I have not minced words on the negative fruit and foci of the 20th Century charismatic movements blinders, errors, and vanity, per se. The business as usual pump em up model certainly has been adequately described in several outstanding and documented works of its analysis. Frankly, its self proclamations, over time, not only became suspect, but became blinders on ‘team pulling horses’ directed by the wagon masters, not necessarily the Spirit of God. Isaiah cautions how it can be when full court pressed in a game where the Court has become unsound, self indulgent, and claiming legitimacy without integrity. Ministry in his Nation at that juncture not only operated on an assmptive model, it also codeveloped idolatry and hypocrisy along with its religious system approach to self declared anointing. The facts of corruption were simply not discussed until it was too late, and Isaiah was left as a Prophet primarily with prophetic futures, not present ability to cleanse, renew, and purge what needed these realities.

    We are where his Nation was, and we are left with the same needs and inability to feed ourselves with the proper information for prescription for informed obedience to change what we have done to ourselves. The blinders are well placed, so as to pull the wagon with the rest of the ‘team’. Sadly, soberly, the old model, the American Religious formula business model, which accentuates its self labeled claims, and upgrades these over and above the very heart of our Father will not wash. It will not bring to pass the changes needed to character, integrity, self indulgence, and where the eye is looking for a self focused completion–which the reality of God in Christ must to make the Bride ready for the Bridegroom.

    Rather than praying all night for empowerment, to continue on as it has religiously been assumed must be so, repentant confession, godly sorrow, and selfless obedience in the things each one of this group or that one one already knows are out of Kingdom inclusion and balance in one’s life must come to hearts and minds as needful. A co dependant model of ministry

  51. A ccodependent model of ministry is formulated by the very expectations religion and its idols maintain. God will shake this nation to its core, without true repentance, as He has warned, and, as such, redirect hearts engaging this or that cake for eating and keeping toward the sight that needs feeding.

    I put no hope in any man or ministry, but in Christ, who will uphold His anointed and clear call for Him alone being
    our sufficiency, and our Message, not we ourselves. Renewal and restoration have a price, which is paid in mutually accountable community–as it was of the Acts of the Apostles. Where do we find these souls upon the altar proclaiming their Gig or Calling as the self labeled prelude to Christ’s Spirit saturating real faith? Where do we find them piling up the things of this world through the ways and means of this world as to penetrating this present darkness? What is it they proclaim, which stands the tests of time? What will Asher take to task, and what will he uphold in KC, in time, he coming from a mutually accountable Messianic community? ‘Regarding the brethren as preferred to oneself’. May we become One as He and the Father are One.

  52. Jabez,
    you defend someone you respect. and perhaps you know.
    Before I read this, I thought of David and Joab. David had fierce friendship; Joab was concerned only with the result of his ‘ministry’. I am more blunt than you, so probably am moderated more often; but we are beginning to come close to talking about real issues that some don’t want us mentioning.
    In Him, Ron M.

  53. Jabez,

    Heat can be so comforting. (I know what medical folks say about cold on inflammation, etc.) Would a heat pad or long, soaking baths help?

    I am giving thanks that you are restored to *complete comfort.* As you know, Jesus’ name is above all other names — including pain, disease, demons, and death. Whatever dark thing has come into your body Temple must leave; it can’t stay.

    Pastor Mel Bond, of Agape Church in Wentzville, Missouri, tells people seeking healing to “relax” and “receive God’s healing power.” You can find him and videos of his healing ministry online.

    You are surrounded by God’s loving, healing Presence. It is powerfully and completely restoring you.

  54. Yes, exactly: coming into community is more important than the business of ministry; yet the stage show is still our main preoccupation. I think the three of us have all seen signs of the solution, but don’t know how to break through to victory, because we must ‘perform’ within the tradition that provides the virtual microphone.
    “Now break into small groups and pray.” This is the diversion, not the main event. We are programmed to be fascinated with the ‘shooting star’ (Jason Upton) instead of building real relationships. I don’t know about you, but my Spirit is starting to groan.
    In Him, Ron M.

  55. Christine,

    As a master carpenter in stronger days I worked around a dozen years with others who often took on lifting heavy objects to place these as ‘framing members’ in building structures. So stressed as being a tool of construction, I visited the Oestopathic physician around once every three months or so to pop this or that joint or ligament back where it should be. All day long, year after year, one works at an athletic pace. Most of the accompanying thoughts and contemplation over the hours of focus for doing this or that task are internal, except during lunch breaks, where the ‘crew’ shared feelings, stories, and comradery. I saw many injuries to others over the years, e.g. Butch sent his power saw through his forearm. Willard fell three stories onto a stack of plywood and was out for days, and Patrick lost feeling in one hand. My internal thoughts then were often on myself, my small world, on endurance, on the quality of the outdoor day each day in Colorado high country where I worked, or on getting through each day with some energy left for family.

    During this season, last attempted after leaving Seminary study, I stressed my lower back, two lowest vertebra, and right SI joint while welding one end of a thousand pound complex truss-joist framing member. I went through rehab for a year and one half. Then I was given a rating for Permanent Partial Disability. Walking normally was out of the question for another year and one half, mostly spent flat on my back or moving around on fists and knees. I settled a workman’s comp claim, and improved bit by bit over several years (over a decade back in time). However, the lower spine discs are compressed, and, when standing or sitting long periods, the area stiffens and emits pain. When walking, biking, or cross country skiing no such encumbrance occurs. Range of motion and lifting limits are in place. But, bending this way or that way too the spine in that area can stiffen and emit mind fogging pain. Miraculously laying flat for 20 minutes to 2 hours relieves the pain.

    My heavenly Father was often in my thoughts on the solitary quest of building tasks, as His Kingdom is this day. Three operations in other body areas for related stress injuries say to me that I will trust in Him; even were long
    term healing His Plan in this case, I could not presuppose it to be so. I have been healed of so much by the way the body deals with and compensates for such injuries. My soul person has been enlarged in any related distress through inner prayer, and its school. I remain thankful for this experience and others not perfected in this life. Like Joni Erkison, I will trust my Father for what He is accomplishing of Christ in me through all such life experience which bolsters spiritual formation.

  56. So interesting, Ron. I appreciate your phrase (and emphasis on) “coming into community.”

    Yes. The showtime quality. I too have tired of it.

    Our Dr. Brown provides a quiet and deep contrast to this trend.

    I’m thinking a friend or two and I may offer a Sunday afternoon discussion group. It could be on the order of a “house church,” but I don’t think we’ll meet in a house or call ourselves a church. I live in a community that is somewhat dominated by the intellect.

    I suppose the descriptive media copy could be something like: “If you haven’t found a church that exactly fits, come join us at 2 on Sunday afternoons for community, conversation, and personal growth based on the sacred text. Ongoing weekly gatherings will facilitate conversation, study, and fellowship; the environment will be characterized by casual comfort. We will honor the Jewish roots of Christianity.”

    I’m watching for an unmistakable signal from Abba before going forward.

  57. God Bless you, Jabez!

    What you have just written is so precious.


  58. I am already feeling the rejection of saying that we must come together to defeat Jezebel this fall; there is a big push to promote a 3rd party candidate, but it will fail miserably. The luxury Titanic is already sunk; I won’t be made a scapegoat again for telling the truth; the Church has relied far too much upon political money. I will not kiss someone’s ring for favor!
    Now that that’s out of the way, I would call Exploitation of Communion as one of the most severe and grossest sins of our or any generation; and taking the Tithe for yourself (in effect calling yourself God) an abominable curse that affects the entire congregation (cHRM, “the devoted thing”, if I recall correctly). The Truth will stand; but constant disassociation for righteousness’ sake also hurts terribly.
    In Him, Ron M.

  59. R. & C.,

    It assists comprehending your shared concerns and desires for holy devotion, worship, community interdependency with the reality of Christ in us, the saints being equipped to do ministry, and associated instruction to look into Jezebel and Balaam from the old accounts as to who, what, and how these corrupted the people (men) and leadership offered the chosen Nation as named of God for stupid seasons of idolatrous devotion. These became active and sometimes invisible forces capturing the Nation’s heart, as later is found active in divisive intention as alike influencing one of the 7 churches of the Revelation. It is only Jesus, not the church itself in its own blindness, who discovers who is robbing the church of its certainty of witness and the protection of Jesus, when so, and how so. This is the kind of idolatry I mentioned above working through assumptions into the claims, loyalities, devotions, permissions, and ways presenting as false formulas for true devotion found of some religious practices. It is not the form which embraces us in spirit and truth, it is or is not the Lord.

    Such preferences scatter the strength which is only gathered into our fellowships from the single eye given to Jesus Himself through His Gospel as placed as a charge with us from the beginning of the Church as our Lord of single devotion. Get this right and other aspects of the seven fold Spirit of God ally with His People for their own abiding grace (Is. 11, Rev 1:4). There seems to be a present concern among many for soliciting power, is there an alike concern for the other balanced aspects active with us of the Spirit of God Isaiah and the Revelation clarify for the Messenger of covenant to be with us? Another way of putting it, is are we able to choose the one thing needful which created some division between Mary and Martha when Jesus visited their and Lazarus’ home?

    Seduction is mentioned as Ron often has, resulting of the lulling of substitution of Religious practice honoring false teaching and seducing upholding teacher petty loyalty as of preference over the Messenger of the Revelation. This was the case in the First Century and it is not different in our technologically fixated time. Hitler in his season was a master of employing and creating the latest technology to deceive even the very elect, had it been possible. Through enticements replacing the relational grace of Christ working purity of heart among His people in a given fellowship–as three such fellowships identified in Rev. 2–the Satan rises of strong influence among local secular pagan community, churches, and its divisions. Six of the seven churches Jesus addressed then were deceived by His discerned errors, something they themselves could not see nor account for. How are we now in a strengthened position to discern what is needful?

    In association, v. 2:13, the Satan’s throne is not only found at that writing in then Asia (in Turkey this day. FYI prophetic scholars are divided on whether this was the case in John’s day, or to be the case in a distant future); it is placed where that church had NOT given over its faithful testimony of the Messiah’s Name. What did Jesus then hold ‘against’ them? Who then was betraying the Way of Christ where His Name was being faithfully aired? As found in vs. 14-17, only for a short season the very nature of truth takes as addressable and changeable the opposition of the ‘few things’ regarded by some of that church long enough to remain with them, where the transparent Spirit of the Revelation has these things ‘against you.’

    It is spelled out here what Ron has repeatedly mentioned as active among self declarative so-called prophetic revival ministries focus of our time. He has mentioned thirty years of following such movements. Come up with verbal descriptors of what is actually being promoted and upheld as still possible for church recovery in Rev 2, and one wonders how long Jesus will tarry with such gatherings and practices who lose orientation to He Himself as their Messenger. Can Show and tell of ministry itself as front center point attentive devotion in our gatherings rob the heart of the daily truth and purity of the Way–even though in some measure citing the founder’s Name among church observances?

    Enticing others through false teaching to ‘eat food sacrificed to idols’ (even as today may be propositioned both literally and allegorically) was coupled with practices of ‘sexual immorality’ accepted as was given devotion in this admonished church. What comes up on the screens to which we grant our attention and heart? And so as may change the purpose and character of a church still using His Name while otherwise being enticed? In Greek and Hebrew the word roots of a Name depict the Nature composing its identity, as such. If a mixture of devotions to man’s preferences and the divine nature revealed in Jesus Name parallels what is practiced for fleecing the sheep or audiences through religious phenomena given attention and active practice, where money is exchanged: what does such then regard for our gatherings, practices, active church politics, and attention?

    Pergamum. The addresses made to the churches in the Revelation was of their “Messenger” in each place. This was always so as advocating singly each Messenger of Jesus as Messiah, the Golden lampstand Messenger. What then is actually valued through lesser allegiances as attending church devotions, and message, where each church’s associated life practices attempt change even of the realities of the true nature of the Messiah present through different emphasis of Message and Messenger than He Himself? At the time of the Revelation being penned, the First Century was drawing to a close. The emerging international church had then lost the almost official protection of being regarded as a sect of Judaism locally protected by the Empire of Rome. Nero soon moved to draw its blood as emperor worship spread from this location of Rev 2 throughout the empire. Its opposition was to those born from above in the Messiah which Judaism and Rome then rejected as worthy of devotion.

    The teaching of the Nicolaitans, as their Message of special knowledge esoteric emphasis, is also rebuked by Jesus as given preference among some of the Ekklesia there. What today do we place in order of preference as important before the simple Messenger of our entrusted Gospel of Jesus the Christ. If such involves religious practice, formats, and desire for their preference for attentive regard, will we then remove the testimony of the Name and nature of Christ for something we suppose as being greater for indulgence and glorification?

  60. I call upon leaders such as Michael Brown, Bobby Conner, Dutch Sheets, and Ray Hughes to take a bold stand and separate themselves from party politic and business contract Christianity that only promotes those who buy into a global domination Protestant Pope concept. When the Salvation Message again becomes the Main Event, not a carnival game for gathering alms, GOD will once again let His face shine upon our proceedings.
    Why was the following too dangerous to publish?
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    springs and falls, wells & rivers…
    but what about the ‘dams’? treasure in earthen vessels, or broken cisterns?
    How much should be ‘stored up’ v. ‘take no thought..,?’
    The Father gave the Storehouse plan; gave precise details for the Temple (even in present future tense: latter Ezekiel) yet never ‘commanded’ any of it; only agreed.
    The Hebrew history places emphasis upon the natural; the NT, upon the Spiritual (the Wind blows where it wills…); but ZION remains a standard on a hill, where Messiah, The Standard, will one day reign.
    Yes, I can confine myself to a monastic cell and write beautiful poetry, and have. But is this the present Vision? The Agreement becomes the mobilizing thrust, as long as we first agree with GOD.
    I’m reminding of David tromping around one side of the Rock, and Saul the other… I’ve hiked remote places like that in Az. You’re right to remind me that Communion is so far beyond the shouting that it becomes indescribable. Yet, there is still the Sound: the Shouting: a time and place; and also the awesome silence.
    In Him, Ron M.

  61. Ron,

    Agreed, in worship and rejoicing, there is a time both for shouting and silence. What I heard in prayer was about waiting in silence.

    I followed your meaning, above, but would appreciate unpacking the first sentence for my comprehension. Paraphrase, what exactly are you saying? Is this about what comes accross as getting attention in certain gatherings by the ways, means, and methods emphasized as becomes the Message which differs from the Commission given the church by our leader? Are you saying that something else is being pursued and practiced which moves us away from the authentic object or model, and Lord of our devotion? Or are you saying something else. Recall, I do not have your history of association with various movements around the Nation. I moved from about twelve years of Charismatic movement religious experience to fellowships where Christ Himself became our teacher through His Word’s discipleship. So I was not constantly churned up in my inner man, but came to rest in Christ in time, attention, and daily devotion for thirty plus years after that experience.

    For your own healing, as written, go to a library and read E. Stanley Jones. He once was the largest selling
    Christian author in this nation and the English speaking world. The man walked in the Way more than most dream of. It was then verified in the community he built.

  62. Jabez,
    it’s worse than even I thought; hadn’t really kept up with it all the last couple of years.
    Googled a lot of connect-the-dot stuff this morn. I knew what was coming, but not the extent.
    Because this is Christine’s article, and I have both your e-mails, I will send what spells out how far this goes, assuming you know a few basics. I apologize to other readers of this blog; not trying to be melodramatic; but saying so-and-so in any negative sense is a big no-no on both Line of Fire & VOR. Please pray and do your own investigation as GOD leads.
    In Him, Ron M.

  63. Attempted three times; my server refused to send.
    So either GOD won’t let me; or He’s allowing Satan to get in the way for now.
    I suppose if GOD protected even Cain, David had more wisdom about these kinds of things than I.
    In Him, Ron M.

  64. How interesting, Ron. One wonders if this is an anomaly for you?

    If so, apparently the VoR and Line of Fire screening criteria are spot on.

    Maybe we should direct our focus toward what we hope to see, rather than toward what has been disappointing.

  65. R.,

    In past seasons of interchange here, there have been some instances of posting experience similar to your own. As there are many many computers in the network, acting as servers between your efforts and finding these posted on the VOR, I would not quite assume that acts of God or his enemy are in the mix.

    Paul wrote that he admonished to ‘build you up not tear you down”. And urged us to address one another with kindness, love, and preference of the other over our own person. At the same time, as to healthy assertion, we are not doormats for those with stronger ego identification. One of the strongest drives known in our chests is to understand, and be understood. It would be wonderful if dialogue and feedback empathy training were in the quivers of authors posting here as well as responders. This would indeed advance the Kingdom where respect of persons is treated mutually with regard of individual souls.

    I wrote and asked you to unpack because I want to listen, to understand, and to offer perspective–which will be about building up, not tearing down. At the same time we must maintain care in our regard of communication, where, Christine has been a model of care on the VOR, for sure.

    If one could shake the tree for the fruit to fall into their grasp–after the thirty years of movements involvment– what would that fruit be, Ron?

  66. I suppose I can make a general statement, if Jabez promises not to call me ‘cryptic’ :)
    The ‘good tree, bad fruit’ analogy is a bit puzzling to me, however. If you notice above, this is one of the main things I am trying to sort out: so using Saul the Benjaminite I (OT, not the Damascus Road convert) as an example (more than Solomon, even more puzzling) helps some,
    What is troubling is that someone well-respected, and probably Godly in many ways, would eventually use their power to make or break ministries, political candidates, etc. This is generic; don’t start trying to guess who I am talking about. So when it comes to the ‘little people’ (in their eyes) exploitation becomes the norm of how things are done; the contribution means much more than the person themself. I submit that this is odious to GOD; so how do we even bring it forth for positive change?
    In Him, Ron M.

  67. “How do we even bring it forth for positive change?” Bring what forth, Bro.? What is your ‘it’?

  68. And, I do not think my question on the fruit you desired was answered.

  69. ‘ Morning Ron.

    I’d have to look up Saul the Benjaminite. I do remember a little of the Solomon deviation. That was a surprise. In his case, if I recall correctly, he procured for himself many wives. They worshiped idols, and he participated with them. This kind of sounds like the biblical-era version of a “midlife crisis.” In some cases, the cause might be thinking, as the old beer commercial had it, “We only go around once in life, so grab for all the gusto you can get.” The root cause in these cases — some television and other prominent pastors come to mind — basically boils down to believing that this life is all there is. Quite sad for Israel’s king or Christian pastors. But many different mindsets or beliefs could be motivating factors.

    When troubling memories of earth-focused churches that see some people as stars and others as custodians, or that value people’s dollars more than the people themselves arise, we can hold them up to Yahweh in prayer. We can ask for guidance toward the right community of faith. We can choose to release any uncomfortable feelings we might harbor toward individuals — and then move on.

    I’ve heard that the “dark forces” work by *distracting* — or trying to. This dynamic may have come into play in some of the good trees/bad fruit examples as well. One of the best things we can do to resist dark paths like midlife crises and other futile deviations from God’s plan for us — is to choose to stay focused on what is important.

    One method of doing so might be to weigh any consideration regarding personal lifestyle or other significant choices against our mutually-treasured hope that we might live in such a way that Yeshua could say “Well done.”

  70. “We can ask for guidance toward the right community of faith. ”

    Maybe as close as I can come right now, Jabez.
    The Strength of the Vision often is undisclosed for years; our Hope can seem dashed against the boulders until the Substance and Evidence of our Faith(fulness) is Revealed.

    As much as I enjoy our internet interactivity, the miles prohibit the Communion we long for: so, “On earth as it is in Heaven” becomes much the same mandate as “Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem”.
    In Him, Ron M.

  71. And that fact, R., is a matter for prayer, and the formation of Christ in us to One New Man. This is the realization which must come, to then parallel Christ intercessing, filling the universe, and soon Returning for those whose lamps are trimmed by the most excellent Way. The seven churches were blinded and tempted toward idolatry when the most excellent Way was ignored for some other idols of the flesh, present among those with us, but not of us.

  72. Pray. What is being seen and warned of in the Spirit now regarding North America is extremely difficult. Pray for intercessory capacity. Pray for peace that passes understanding.

  73. R., Please attempt redoing what you first mentioned in #61 as purposed. –Jabez

  74. Jabez, I’ll pray about it- not trying to be facetious.
    How proactive is Prayer? How much of it, especially in gatherings, can be manipulative posturing?
    We’re coming closer to Agreement.
    In Him, Ron M.

  75. It may be a matter of context as to your perspective offered as of past and present concerns, where your primary reference of such seems to be of orchestrated or staged gatherings or rally contexts. The beauty of the No. Am. Consecration Call is that it decentralizes the approach, working in agreement with pre-existing groups, fellowships, churches, organizations, prayer chains, calendar efforts, and well intentioned faithful others. Its integrity rests with God Himself.

    Excepting suggestions, with supportful and other ongoing insights from many to be published from its broadside internet communication approach, calendar Calls, and an opportunity for both the Lord and such organized local efforts to honor the steps to its approach, the registry of those in agreement, God willing, goes forward to the Land of the People of the Book in reference to its redemptive history (to honor our sharing of their Messiah’s Kingship). There and only there remains the placement of the historical Atonement.

    His accomplishment and place in the final analysis of gathering together as One for repentance and His renewal is never replaced or replaceable. Devotion requires its action of time spent, with interactions with the seven-fold Spirit in each chest and community of alliance. Humility, not group rally is the approach.

    In the Revelation to John, it was not the seven churches which self assessed well, planned well, or reachieved their connections of dubious character with the Head of the Body: it was the Lord Himself who called them aside to warn, admonish, and mention the price of following such expectations. As mentioned, having a cake and eating it too is not part and parcel to the Call, where Jesus soberly told what would happen if current directions were not abandoned for direct connection priority with the Way of He Himself.

    Being the Lord of truth and grace we remain alike dependent of His direct admonishment and guidance, interdependent for acts of alliance once knowing His frank assessment of our fellowships’ and faiths’ state of being, and sobered by the contexts He gave these churches. There is no context whatsoever for change based on the advertised rally approach in the Revelation. I ask you to read and notice what He asks for those blinded by their own self conceits, as we remain this day. If in the First Century six of the seven churches were in danger of extinction, and were completely not self correcting without the revelations given each one, why should we assume we are superior? Never has the Call been needed more to hear Him, and respond to His remedies in each location of assumptive regard of the chosen Name.

  76. My daughter’s court Mon.; NC vote on marriage amendment Tue.
    So, GOD is working it out. Pray, pray, pray; what can you do?
    This has already been an expensive learning curve for each step.
    But it is still all about Marriage, Family, and Tribe; the Vision is correct.
    I believe GOD is giving me a green light to write a brief testimony of what happened
    at the Summer of Love cross-country tour July-August 2007; as long as I remain honest
    \without a lot of editorializing. This will take a bit of time; probably not ’til the end of next week.
    I’ll also have to pray about who to send it to.
    A couple of clear Victories next week certainly would help!
    In Him, Ron M.

  77. Ron,

    I’m confident that you (all) have gathered as much evidence as possible that your daughter is a fit and responsible parent. Maybe her husband’s mother has had time to reconsider her ways — and the legal process can rather quickly be dismissed. The wonderful thing about prayer is — it is so powerful! It should be our confident FIRST resort — rather than the all-too-familiar, last-resort approach — “All we can do now is pray.”

    I would hold up to Yahweh a prayer that the mother-in-law will find reassurance that ALL of you can enjoy the grandbaby. The little thing doesn’t need to be at the center of a tug of war! Your daughter’s and her husband’s being reunited is *strong* legal ground — on which they can confidently stand.

    May you walk through the proceedings with the calm assurance that God’s love and protection surround you, your daughter, and your grandbaby.

  78. Ron,

    It is a burden you have shared for prayer so we will. As for writing out a testimony, discerning the particular Judge’s approach within the actual hearing process seems important, with the qualification that all testimony, given as affidavit, letter, or otherwise, to be admissible in jurisprudence processes must usually be able to be cross examined as to admissibility and relevancy. This is especially so if it seems in any manner a charged atmosphere.

    You will recall from all those TV trial shows that admissibility is based on relevancy, and that to the laws and criteria being examined to form a conclusion (family law, domestic violence law, best interests of the child criteria, safety and integrity of the provision for custody determination, fitness of the parent, or to be determined custodian, etc.). Unlike God, Courts are not a place to say what we feel or need, but a place for truth bearing on the criteria employed at hand for determining actual outcome. It may or may not be wise to disclose any history or details, and so, only in cases of direct relevancy on outcome. Present status of a parent is likely more important than past status. For example, how a child came to be conceived may not be relevant at all.

    Sometimes offering our feelings and/or needs in the mix can muddy waters, instead of clear their view to the bottom of the flowing waterway moving forward so to speak.

    Most Attorneys advise to maintain silence unless the procedures offer a part into which such testimony has procedural evidence bearing and relevance capacity. If your daughter then has an Attorney passing whatever you wish to say for a court process determination of relevancy, into entry to procedures, rather than directly to another officer of the Court or the Judge himself or herself seems proper as to consideration of how such a testimony may be placed in the proceedings. Making it better or worse is the Attorney’s call in most situations of process and procedure relevancy and proceedings entry of evidence or testimony bearing on the Court. Like it or not these proceedings do have a social-political component a local Attorney will understand best.

    Again, what is being decided, and what would you like to see shaken from the tree either as fruit to fall into your hand for inclusion and keeping of outcome, or fall off the tree to not be placed back in it again?

    On the level of care, we know you do and are doing what you may and can. What are the possibilities of outcome so that how to pray is in focus?

  79. Because Jabez requests and Christine prays to ‘envision the outcome’, I will give a few specifics I wouldn’t otherwise include:
    The first attorney quit on us because I would not allow my daughter to sign anything with DSS other than the Safety Assessment, which is supposed to be completed in 45 days; but they have put it ‘on hold’ til they see the outcome of the ‘permanancy plan’ with the threat to take the baby and file a state case against my daughter if she wins. They already filed guardianship papers completely disregarding due process. This is the same county where a baby died a little over a year ago because of incompetency; and they still think they can do whatever they want. They never contacted my daughter about anything during the 45 days.
    The judge scheduled the ’10-day hearing’ over two months from the filing of the ex parte, giving the ma-in-law complete control without having to do anything. She hired one of the best lawfirms in western NC, and they are trying to do the custody hearing tomorrow disregading the ex parte hearing completely.
    The second lawyer demanded $5000 in advance; the third, $3500 refusing to even meet with me to talk about it first (as I am not a ‘party’). I contacted two more who didn’t return my calls, and another in Asheville who ‘wouldn’t travel that far’.
    So my daughter will have to appear pro se tomorrow, based upon the affirmative defenses I filed for her last week. My son-in-law has a lawyer, but will be in another county until the afternoon, so these mid-20 year-olds are going to HAVE to step up and do things right in the morning. It is my daughter’s Esther moment.
    In Him, Ron M.

  80. Ron,

    You have offered more perspective and a lens on it not earlier offered. I admit not being able to sort through it all, with sketchy details of this or that engagement or challenge as you have known such to be in history. Here I thought from all said that you were having a hearing in Florida. Unfortunately the DSS positions are usually shoe in positions, for the Court needs more specific evidenciary information to perceive otherwise. Challenge to the DSS suppositions then may be called for. Has your daughter been declared unfit or as one neglecting her child? Pulling a child away from a mother without cause is suspect at best, and works against clear and present protocol for care working with justice. It might be wise to challenge the Court if necessary by asking the Court what is in the best interests of family and child? Being open to the opposing relatives desires for visitation, while not to their control, is not excluded by a careful stance of open regard to hearts in motion around the attachments and boundaries made by family for a child.

  81. Ron,

    Without understanding all details and dynamics, it seems that your daughter has nothing to hide. That she can’t be put on the defensive. She is married to her baby’s father; they have reunited; probably there are people who would speak for her. Letters to judges can be effective.

    If your daughter can remain calm, centered, and not allow the one who would throw her weight around to put her on the defensive, the married parents of a baby, who have no background-check kinds of concerns, stand on firm legal footing. I trust your daughter will be unruffled by her mother- in-law’s surprising maneuvers and allegations.

    Perhaps the focus could even be turned back on the accuser. While we wouldn’t want to set a son against his mother or a father against a mother-in-law, could the viability of her allegations become the focus of the investigation? Are there others who might attest to her ways? Or could any one of you present them in a calm, confident-in-right-outcome kind of way?

    We give thanks for the right and best outcome for this baby. (It “feels” as though she might be a girl. I believe the genderless term “grandbaby” has been used each time.) Every good, responsible thing that her parents have done, or newer trend that speaks well for them, can be brought forward in as non-contentious a way as possible.

    The three of you can come from a place of love and assurance — and refuse to allow fear to pull your strings.

    If there are maneuverings for wrong motives that need to be seen through — we give thanks for the judicial person’s or persons’ ability to see through them. Surely any attorney or judge should have insight into motivation. Notwithstanding her apparent alignment with DSS.

    May tranquility and reassurance be your inward allies as you walk calmly through this process.

  82. Ron,

    May “the peace that passes understanding” be with each of you. You can help set this tone.

  83. The two-word phrase “without merit” seems particularly effective in legal settings when dealing with “fiction.”

  84. R and C.,

    I’ll go with the desire and faith of Christine’s #80. My own inner man appreciates the outlook and work of support. It is of the Spirit of grace and truth. In agreement. Touching and agreeing in prayer.

    It seems too that you have not given up diligence of possiblities, Ron. –J.H.

  85. Christine and Jabez,
    I took a week off from replying because I didn’t know what to say; my seer friend called ‘five or six times’ and I haven’t returned his call yet. I still don’t know what to say and must be very careful in how to say it. The temptation is to paste what I wrote the Judge’s Assistant last Friday, as today is my daughter’s 25th birthday and I want vindication for her; but I will be moderate one more time and wait just a little longer; or not. I’m really ready to bring this whole thing to the light; perhaps if I receive no reply by tonight, I’ll release this to everyone I know. Please GOD, show me the right thing to do TODAY.
    In Him, Ron M.

  86. Your family’s experience is very much in our hearts and prayers this day, Ron.

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